Israel’s Genocide in Gaza | 2023- till present

[Meengla]

unilateral return of all Zionist prisoners not demanding return of Palestinian prisoners
conceding rule of Gaza despite being elected government in 2006
quite basic

You know Israel/America and even the PLO don't give a crap about the 2006 elections. And I think they made a historic mistake by not recognizing the Hamas govt in Palestine. But that's hindsight and we know that hindsight is 20/20. I tend to think that Hamas in 2006 was far more accommodative of a solution along the 1967 lines then they later became. Jimmy Carter contended that Hamas was open to a 20-year truce to do confidence building with only one condition: Israel stops expanding the Settlements and respect the Muslim Holy sites. But, of course, Israel never had that intention.

As for the ceasefire terms--Israel can't accept Hamas' maximalist demands and neither can Hamas accept Israel's demand. Both sides are really fighting for their existence--yes, even Israel is fighting for its existence.

 

[Meengla]

ISIS is still there in Syria but has just been very weaken. ISIS is even still there in Indonesia despite our effort to eliminate them

Study some geography, man!! Compare Gaza with Syria or Indonesia or Afghanistan.

Anyway, it is a bravado idea that the Gazan resistance cannot be defeated. They certainly could be if Israel is willing to take losses and continues to get large supplies from America. As I said, it is simple arithmetic, bloody as it is!!

 

[The SC]

A speech by the head of the Hamas Political Bureau, Ismail Haniyeh, regarding the truce negotiations in Gaza

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CC for English subtitles..

 

[Indos]

Study some geography, man!! Compare Gaza with Syria or Indonesia or Afghanistan.

Anyway, it is a bravado idea that the Gazan resistance cannot be defeated. They certainly could be if Israel is willing to take losses and continues to get large supplies from America. As I said, it is simple arithmetic, bloody as it is!!

The main point that I want to raise is that ideology is difficult to be eliminated. Despite successful Indonesian transformation since 1998 with people become much more conservative while economically and institutionally more advanced than pre 2000 period, you will still have Indonesians who are anti democracy like @Raiden that think Mullah should lead Muslim state with their authoritarian style.

The same like Palestinians, there are still lot of Palestinians who believe that Palestinian armed resistance will lead to independence Palestinians and this is happening in relatively free Gaza compared to controlled West Bank. Despite so as we could see clearly what happening in Gaza today, I believe many Hamas leaders still have some brain to acknowledge their strategy/ideology mistakes. Hamas has already wanted to unite with Fatah/PLO again and this shows they understand that their previous strategy is a big mistake.

 

[The SC]

Aid ship headed for Gaza from Cypress​

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[Raiden]

The main point that I want to raise is that ideology is difficult to be eliminated. Despite successful Indonesian transformation since 1998 with people become much more conservative while economically and institutionally more advanced than pre 2000 period, you will still have Indonesians who are anti democracy like @Raiden that think Mullah should lead Muslim state with their authoritarian style.

Thank you for the kind compliment. Yes, I'm anti-democracy.

The past Islamic powers rule themselves with a central authority + cadres of trained professionals. Not a jungle-like mess ala democracy, where meatball sellers...

could find themselves in charge of millions of men, just because they win in ballot boxes

Democracy is gay and a waste of time because once these guys put their asses on the parliament, the only thing they will think of is how to secure more terms.

 

[Indos]

Thank you for the kind compliment. Yes, I'm anti-democracy.

The past Islamic powers rule themselves with a central authority + cadres of trained professionals. Not a jungle-like mess ala democracy, where meatball sellers...

could find themselves in charge of millions of men, just because they win in ballot boxes

Democracy is gay and a waste of time because once these guys put their asses on the parliament, the only thing they will think of is how to secure more terms.

More likely you reveal hardent people with specifict ideology like Hamas is difficult to eliminate so Israeli hard line lead gov pursuing to eliminate all Hamas is basically an excuse to keep killing Palestinians until all Palestinian leave Gaza as their long main goal and one of them has killed Yizhak Rabin who has set Gaza relatively free from cotrolled West Bank.

Despite many has acknowledged Indonesia transforming economy/institution which is surprisingly inline with the surge of Islamic conservatism in the country that is contrary to previous belief that democracy will lead to more liberal society, yet there are still people like you who still believe with authoritarian style state that has dangerous and risky side that has both destroy Iraq, Syria, and Libya.

 

[Meengla]

The main point that I want to raise is that ideology is difficult to be eliminated. Despite successful Indonesian transformation since 1998 with people become much more conservative while economically and institutionally more advanced than pre 2000 period, you will still have Indonesians who are anti democracy like @Raiden that think Mullah should lead Muslim state with their authoritarian style.

The same like Palestinians, there are still lot of Palestinians who believe that Palestinian armed resistance will lead to independence Palestinians and this is happening in relatively free Gaza compared to controlled West Bank. Despite so as we could see clearly what happening in Gaza today, I believe many Hamas leaders still have some brain to acknowledge their strategy/ideology mistakes. Hamas has already wanted to unite with Fatah/PLO again and this shows they understand that their previous strategy is a big mistake.

Bolded Part: I partially agree with you and with caveats!
Indeed, 'ideology is difficult to be eliminated' and thus the Gazan resistance, even if eliminated by the Israelis to the point of either a diminished Palestinian presence in Gaza or a total expulsion from Gaza, will still live on because it has to live on due to the primordial nature which exists in all human beings: Independence and a sense of their destiny. In that sense, you and others are correct: The Palestinian resistance can't be eliminated.

But how will that 'spirit' be a force for change? There are millions of Palestinians living as exiles in Jordan/Lebanon and elsewhere--what is that 'spirit' doing for the Palestinians in the West Bank--which is the real Palestine? Not much!

The Israelis are not fools. They know that mere 'spirit' doesn't matter. They know that human nature could be changed--beat up enough and offer some morsels and most human beings would just decide to 'accept'--and that's what has largely happened in the West Bank. The entire continent of South America has been colonized and changed to the extent that they have lost their indigenous culture and civilization to a large extent and are happy to be wanna-be European 'Christians'. That's what subjugation and colonization does if allowed time!

Similar changes exist for the Palestinians. Jordan, with its large Palestinian refugee population, should have erupted seeing the miseries of their brothers in Gaza. But where are they??

So the only path forward for the Palestinians and similar nations is violent resistance.

Currently, against the Israeli plans, the Gazans stand resisting knowing the fate that awaits the Palestinians should the Gazans fail. But YOU bringing up PLO/Fatah is so odd: You seem to have a soft corner for the Palestinians and yet to fail to see the historic goals of Israel in that region. You fail to see that the so-called President of the Palestinian Authority Mr. Mahmoud Abbas can't even leave Ramallah without the Israeli permission!! Mr. Abbas is more crippled, compromised, worthless than the Vichy Regime or the Karzai Regime or the South Vietnamese Regime were. Can you not see that?!!

 

[Indos]

Bolded Part: I partially agree with you and with caveats!
Indeed, 'ideology is difficult to be eliminated' and thus the Gazan resistance, even if eliminated by the Israelis to the point of either a diminished Palestinian presence in Gaza or a total expulsion from Gaza, will still live on because it has to live on due to the primordial nature which exists in all human beings: Independence and a sense of their destiny. In that sense, you and others are correct: The Palestinian resistance can't be eliminated.

But how will that 'spirit' be a force for change? There are millions of Palestinians living as exiles in Jordan/Lebanon and elsewhere--what is that 'spirit' doing for the Palestinians in the West Bank--which is the real Palestine? Not much!

The Israelis are not fools. They know that mere 'spirit' doesn't matter. They know that human nature could be changed--beat up enough and offer some morsels and most human beings would just decide to 'accept'--and that's what has largely happened in the West Bank. The entire continent of South America has been colonized and changed to the extent that they have lost their indigenous culture and civilization to a large extent and are happy to be wanna-be European 'Christians'. That's what subjugation and colonization does if allowed time!

Similar changes exist for the Palestinians. Jordan, with its large Palestinian refugee population, should have erupted seeing the miseries of their brothers in Gaza. But where are they??

So the only path forward for the Palestinians and similar nations is violent resistance.

Currently, against the Israeli plans, the Gazans stand resisting knowing the fate that awaits the Palestinians should the Gazans fail. But YOU bringing up PLO/Fatah is so odd: You seem to have a soft corner for the Palestinians and yet to fail to see the historic goals of Israel in that region. You fail to see that the so-called President of the Palestinian Authority Mr. Mahmoud Abbas can't even leave Ramallah without the Israeli permission!! Mr. Abbas is more crippled, compromised, worthless than the Vichy Regime or the Karzai Regime or the South Vietnamese Regime were. Can you not see that?!!

After successful transformation of Gaza into Hamas lead gov, Israel hard line get benefited from Hamas stupid 7 Oct raid that has been systematically orchestrated by Israelis strategies by pushing and pushing Hamas into the corner that eventually lead to them become so emotional and do the stupid 7 oct raid that is emotionally driven raid that has benefited Israeli hard line goal by using it as excuse/pretext to assert their long main goal for Israeli expansion.

As they see successful strategy has been shown in Gaza, they know want to create the same thing to happen in West Bank. Making Fatah lost support, creating Hamas like armed resistence, hoping West Bank make the same mistake with their own future like 7 October raid that will be once again used by Israeli hard line to assert their goal, expanding Israeli territory by destroying Ramallah and other cities in West Bank and kicking them out of West Bank. From Israeli hard line POV, it is indeed their religious duty to do thing like that.

 

[Raiden]

More likely you reveal hardent people with specifict ideology like Hamas is difficult to eliminate so Israeli hard line lead gov pursuing to eliminate all Hamas is basically an excuse to keep killing Palestinians until all Palestinian leave Gaza as their long main goal and one of them has killed Yizhak Rabin who has set Gaza relatively free from cotrolled West Bank.

I'm an Islamic supremacist, Hamas is IMO, an Islamic-nationalist.

I'm not putting so much worry if Gaza were to be depopulated. Even if they manage to do so, we will return eventually. And when I say 'We', I mean Arabs and Muslims that make up the population mix of the Palestinians.

So as long as there are Arabs and Muslims, we will eventually return. Don't know what will be the fate of those Israelis though.

I'm just excited that the prophecy of the war with Jews is finally happening in my lifetime.

Despite many has acknowledged Indonesia transforming economy/institution which is surprisingly inline with the surge of Islamic conservatism in the country that is contrary to previous belief that democracy will lead to more liberal society, yet there are still people like you who still believe with authoritarian style state that has dangerous and risky side that has both destroy Iraq, Syria, and Libya.

1. I'm happy that Indonesian Muslims finally realize that Islam is indeed a religion about power and politics
2. I'm disappointed that they believe in ballot boxes.

I'm not going to be the guy who will torpedo their efforts to defend Islam tho, but the ideal long-term goal is to make Islam supreme and we no longer need democracy.

Democracy is gay and it belong to the West. Not in Islamic lands

 

[Indos]

I'm an Islamic supremacist, Hamas is IMO, an Islamic-nationalist.

I'm not putting so much worry if Gaza were to be depopulated. Even if they manage to do so, we will return eventually. And when I say 'We', I mean Arabs and Muslims that make up the population mix of the Palestinians.

So as long as there are Arabs and Muslims, we will eventually return. Don't know what will be the fate of those Israelis though.

I'm just excited that the prophecy of the war with Jews is finally happening in my lifetime.

1. I'm happy that Indonesian Muslims finally realize that Islam is indeed a religion about power and politics
2. I'm disappointed that they believe in ballot boxes.

I'm not going to be the guy who will torpedo their efforts to defend Islam tho, but the ideal long-term goal is to make Islam supreme and we no longer need democracy.

Democracy is gay and it belong to the West. Not in Islamic lands

Democracy is not belong to the West. Even Quraish tribe descendent of Ibrahim/Abraham practice democracy long before the West actually do it. Mecca was not Kingdom during pre Islamic and it was not kingdom during early Islam period.

It was more toward democratic/consultation style system driven city and one of the famous historic thing about this is when the tribes there argue about which tribe should carry Hajar Aswad when they were fixing Ka'bah, they do the consultation style like any modern parliamentary action and decided prophet Muhammad ( not yet prophet during that time) that should solve the dispute.

Early Islam also do the same, prophet Muhammad is not King when he lead Madinah, nor Abu Bakar, Umar, Ustman, Ali. The succession system is not based on blood line like Muawiyah, Abassiyah system. Aftee the death of prophet Muhammad, the Quraish and Anshar did the parliamentary style discussion and decided to make Abu Bakar as their leader after debating and made some votings among themselves. It was recorded in the biography of Abu Bakar written by famous and respected Egyptian historian, Muhammad Haikal. The system is also taugh in any Islamic studies in university in master / Phd degree of Islamic studies.

 

[The SC]

Al Jazeera Channel
@AJArabic
opens a deep wound in the wall of Palestinian pain..A list of 31 thousand martyrs is published on #غزة on the night of #رمضان , with names. They are not numbers, they are stories, tales and families. They are victims of Nazism and Zionist terrorism. They are victims of the horrific crime of genocide. They are victims of official Arab and Islamic silence and betrayal.Ramadan has come, and Gaza is not well, remember that.At your suhoor tables, remember that more than 2 million displaced people in Gaza live in the open without water, food, or electricity.- When you gather in Ramadan with your families, remember that the place where the Gaza families gathered was under rubble.- When you meet your children at Suhoor, remember that there is no family in Gaza that does not have a martyr, a wounded person, or a bereaved person.At your breakfast tables, remember that Gaza is ravaged by hunger, crushed by cold, and killed by disease, and does not find anything to break the fast with.- In your prayers, prayers, and supplications, remember that there are no mosques left in Gaza.Ramadan has come and Gaza has shed its blood, its buildings, its mosques, and its best men.#غزة Despite her hunger, wounds, pain, poverty, and illness, she embraces her dignity.There is no supplication like the supplication of Gaza, no Ramadan like the Ramadan of Gaza, no fasting like the fasting of Gaza, no prayer like the prayer of Gaza, nothing similar to Gaza except Gaza, and no reward equivalent to the reward of Gaza.Peace to Gaza, its martyrs, its wounded, its people and its mujahideen. Peace, peace... Peace to all the sad eyes whose tears overflow with sorrow and pride.Peace, peace to Gaza, peace..

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[PakFactor]

IDF brigade commander, cousin of Bezalel Smotrich, killed in southern Gaza​

The IDF announced on Saturday the death of [terrorist] Master Sergeant (res.) Amishar Ben David in combat on Friday in the southern Gaza Strip.

Ben David was 43 years old, from Eli in Samaria [the occupied Palestinian West Bank], and a commander in the Oz Commando Brigade.

Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich revealed on Saturday evening that Ben David was his cousin, mourning his loss in an X post.

Additionally, the [genocidal] IDF announced that another [terrorist] officer from the same brigade was seriously injured and was brought to a hospital for treatment.

Bezalel Smotrich's cousin, IDF brigade commander, killed in Gaza | The Jerusalem Post

Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich revealed on Saturday evening that Ben David was his cousin, mourning his loss in an X post.

www.jpost.com

The Palestinian resistance neutralised a terrorist IDF brigade commander who was a cousin of extremist Israeli government minister, Smotrich, in south Gaza

The liquidated terrorist lived in an illegal Jewish settlement in the occupied West Bank

Good, hopefully, more of those Israeli dogs can be buried.

 

[PakFactor]

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He's Jewish, not surprised by that animal's language.

 

[Raiden]

Democracy is not belong to the West. Even Quraish tribe descendent of Ibrahim/Abraham practice democracy long before the West actually do it. Mecca was not Kingdom during pre Islamic and it was not kingdom during early Islam period.

It was more toward democratic/consultation style system driven city and one of the famous historic thing about this is when the tribes there argue about which tribe should carry Hajar Aswad when they were fixing Ka'bah, they do the consultation style like any modern parliamentary action and decided prophet Muhammad ( not yet prophet during that time) that should solve the dispute.

Early Islam also do the same, prophet Muhammad is not King when he lead Madinah, nor Abu Bakar, Umar, Ustman, Ali. The succession system is not based on blood line like Muawiyah, Abassiyah system. Aftee the death of prophet Muhammad, the Quraish and Anshar did the parliamentary style discussion and decided to make Abu Bakar as their leader after debating and made some votings among themselves. It was recorded in the biography of Abu Bakar written by famous and respected Egyptian historian, Muhammad Haikal. The system is also taugh in any Islamic studies in university in master / Phd degree of Islamic studies.

What you are describing is called the Shura (council), not the same as democracy. In a shura, the elders and the most knowledgeable of the issue are put forward to discuss and try to find a solution to a problem. Democracy is a contest of interests, where people with the most votes (and the most money) wins.

Saying the Shura is the same with Democracy because it has a consultation, is like saying free sex = marriage, just because there's a sexual intercourse taking place.

Saying the Shura is the same with Democracy because it has a consultation, is like saying that the Salat is the same as going to the church, simply because in both, the acts of praising god is being done. Not the same at all.

In a democracy, interests wins, and that interests are backed by powerful figures and money. Money, not the truth dictates the outcome. Very different from Shura.

In a shura, the outcome must not conflict Islam, in a democracy the outcome can be in conflict with Islam. For example, the liquor is haram yes ? in a democracy, this liquor could be halal if the 'representative' decided to make it halal by means of voting. And when they vote to make it halal, the law enforcement will make sure these liquor are safely transactioned in supermarkets etc

In fact, democracy and the representative system is just a larping of the pagan Athenian senate that the Judeo-Christian West tried to copy in the 18th century.

And what is the ruling on imitating disbelievers ? HARAM !!



and these practice by the Athenian pagans are now seen as normal, which is something that needs to be corrected