Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[StrategicBear]

So, just to be clear, you see Iran as dead, the only choices are between a quick death or a slow one?

I disagree. I think that all sides can, and should, be able to work out a middle ground compromise that is workable for all sides. No death and destruction is necessary.

Not with Trump and Nets in office. They want Iran toppled. War is unavoidable.

 

[Hassan Al-Somal]

"It appears we have entered the final countdown for a new American-Israeli offensive against Iran, as tensions reach a breaking point.

This escalation has prompted the UAE to clear its stance and settle the debate with a definitive official statement, categorically refusing to allow its territory to be used as a platform for any military action against Iran.

U.S. President Donald Trump has announced the deployment of what he described as a "Great Armada," led by the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln, currently steaming toward the region.

Simultaneously, major global airlines have begun a "mass exodus" from the region's airspace. Carriers including KLM, Air France, Lufthansa, and IndiGo have already suspended or rerouted flights. Regional airports are experiencing sudden flight path changes to bypass Iranian and Iraqi airspace, resulting in widespread delays and cancellations.

While the Israeli military has raised its readiness to the maximum level, reports indicate that Israel anticipates an "imminent" U.S. strike and is bracing for a potential Iranian retaliatory response on its soil.

In response, Tehran has vowed a "regret-inducing" retaliation that would target all U.S. bases in the region should it be subjected to any attack"

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[nang2]

I wonder if the killing of protesters in the U.S makes it more difficult to target Iran because of the alleged harm to protesters

Or easier because Trump now needs to divert the attention.

 

[hussain0216]

An attack on Iran isnt so easy

Even with U.S military might, an attack on iran thousands of miles away from mainland USA is fraught with danger

Not only due to the risk of Iran firing multiple missiles at multiple targets and U.S bases throughout the middle east

It shuts off the economies of Iran, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, Iraq etc

During any attack for the duration airlines will be shut off from not only Iranian airspace, but most likely much of the middle east and even effecting Pakistan and India

India especially can't use the Pakistan route over Afghanistan and central Asia



It shuts off oils and gas production for multiple countries, effecting multiple economies including China and India

The protesters in Iran have already been subdued and the U.S has multiple issues Including protests inside the U.S to deal with


An attack is possible but it's difficult with no clear outcome and A LOT of risk



The U.S is possibly posturing to try and force concessions from Iran and over time use the same trick of economic strangulation forcing internal unrest and suffering

Up until 2012 Iran's development was impressive, then since it's been 13 years of very harsh economic sanctions to try and break iran


No amount of concessions will do, unless Iran bows and breaks they will keep going
Iran whatever the reasons is fighting for its soul, it's independence and future


Iran cannot trust its diaspora, most them of are the biggest self loathing, drunken, godless scum and bunch of whores you will ever find

 

[VCheng]

War is unavoidable.

I will still hold out hope it is avoided.

 

[Immortals]

You are practicing presentism here because it suits the narrative of Republicans bad and dems good. Democrats are as Jew controlled as Republicans. Have always been. You are an american I hope you know dems were known as corporate controlled party back in 70s-80s. They transformed into leftists only under clintons. Clintons were clients of Epstein, would be foolish to think they were not being blackmailed by Mossad. Remember Obama and Biden provided Israel with highest order military equipment. What about AIPAC controlled characters like Fetterman, Hakeem Jefferies etc that do not even hide who owns them ? ... Dems and Republicans are two sides of same coin.

The Republicans will never let the Democrats be the ones to secure landmark deals with Arabs, Iranians, China, or Russia. That’s reality.

Iran knew when it signed JCPOA that Republicans were against it. That Congress was against it. Yet decided despite that, they should kill their fastest way to a nuclear weapon (Arak Heavy water reactor) from the start.

Yes, both sides contribute weapon systems to Israel it’s a ritual at this point. The bigger the aid you give Israel the less you can be accused of being anti-Israel. It’s Machiavelli politics. Obama gave Israel a big deal at the same time to get enough of his base to support JCPOA. Obama was the only U.S. president to say out loud that Iran had its own strategic interests that should be taken into account. But at the time he said it because Iran was rapidly expanding and their economy was still relatively strong even under early 2010-2015 oil sanctions.

Any nuclear deal means Jack. Khamenei and his croonies are slow learners. Nobody in their entire history has handed over national security to enemies the way Khamenei did when he decided to allow Ahmadinejad to threaten annhilation of Israel 24/7. That was done to create a bargaining chip against west because IRI had served its purpose by Khatami era and was no longer relevant internally or externally. Ayatollahs played with fire.

Any deal with a democrat or a republican means you have already handed over your national security at strategic level to the enemy.

And what is your plan here?

The U.S. is the enemy of Iran’s own doing. Did U.S. tell Iran to take hostages from US embassy like a bunch of religious Daeesh fanatics? Did US tell Iran to go and bomb the U.S. marine Barracks in Lebanon? Did US tell Iran to do the Argentina bombings? Did US tell Khomeini not accept the 1982 ceasefire and march on Karbala and pro long the war another 6 years?? Did US tell Iran to practice ‘neither east nor West’?

Let’s be honest 1980-1995, Iran was a psuedo Islamic radical state that used earliest forms of terrorist attacks to pressure the West. The problem is the revolutionary flame burned out in less than 2 decades. Which is typical in these types of systems (see Cuba, Venezuela, Vietnam, North Korea).

Even Putin called Iran’s leadership crazy in 2003. Let that sink in.

Iran thought with a little oil to thicken its wallet, it can take over the Middle East and stand up to the U.S. and Israel with foreign legions. That as long as it could sell oil no one could stop it. No Air Force, No geo sats, no modern Navy, just some missiles and prayers. It wasn’t a strategy it was suicide.

Nobody on here has a plan. Not that they ever did. The plan the last few years has been resist and resist and resist. NO nukes. No war. NO negotiations. Unfortunately, This isn’t the movie Star Wars, the rebels don’t win against the Evil Empire here. Even nukes at this point will just guarantee that Iran becomes North Korea.

There is no prosperity as long as America remains the enemy.

IRGC has thousands of missiles aimed at Petro of Petro-USD, Israel and US bases ... whats the point?

No it doesn’t. Those are all in storage. Not “aimed”. The only missiles “aimed” were the silos based ones that Iran bragged would be fired within 30 mins of any attack. Yet no missile attack from Iran came for over 24 hours!

Getting missiles out and on TEL takes hours and this time around you can’t bank on Israel flying 1200 miles to bomb them when USAF can penetrate Iranian airspace at will with drones and 5th gen fighters.

DPRK cant threaten any such conventional destruction.

Artillery does immense damage in war. It’s the real ground tool of war. Russia’s entire advantage in Ukraine war is its artillery. It fires over 10,000 shells a day.

Seoul can be flattened in hours by artillery teams in NK. Tens of thousands will die in just the first hours alone. Artillery Teams have been set up for years if not decades since the Korean War ended.

Iran fired 800 missiles at Israel and didn’t even kill 500 people. You cannot compare mass artillery salvos with BMs.

This would mean something when venezuelan oil actually reaches Texan Refinaries. So far none has. You know how many tankers have left for china from same coast since Maduro theatrics ? number is in dozens.

Do you have proof none have? U.S. is one of the few countries on that side of the world that has refineries to process Heavy sour crude which is a thick sludge. In fact, Maduro in his last days was begging the U.S. companies to come back. But the incentive is not there anymore with Shale oil producing so much and oil at $60 dollars.

China is Iran circa 2003 with respect to how U.S. is positioned. Remember Haliburton (Dick cheney’s company) had an office in Tehran under Bush administration. The noose on China will tighten once Iran is taken care of. Even now you can see how the cards have been set.

I said on the old PDF that Russia was going to find itself in a tough position as U.S. creeped on its borders. Everyone laughed at me and said The West wouldn’t dare play games with Putin and that Russia would steam roll anyone who tried. Well we see what happened 10 years later, no?

China is next, once its energy security is threatened (Iran), as we know those Arabs will refuse to sell to China once Israel/US give the word. They got no spine.

Also do not forget venzuelan oil is Russian owned, they can literally file a case against US in ICJ for theft if coast gaurds try to kidnap the tankers. Thats not the Russian style but so far what has Trump achieved in Venezuela ?

Why didn’t they file a case when they boarded the Russian Tanker off the coast of England?

Give a read to REM mines of Afghanistan some time. You will know what value Afghanistan has for west and China which is already there excavating.

Go look at the recent terrorist attack on Chinese company at the mining site in Afghanistan. The video is there to see. There is plenty of other places to get minerals without having to have full security around them 24/7.

My actual point is still standing that US is not Trump or Biden or Obama. They have a deep state and that deep state makes policies that sustain for decades. They dont change despite presidencies going through dems and republicans. Same Syrian civil war model that Obama-H Clinton started for a mere oil and gas pipeline is still being practiced by Trump.

Syria was given a deal in 2009. Leave Iran’s orbit and get the Golan back in exchange with a peace deal with Israel (early version of Abraham accord basically). Assad refused. There is well known picture of Assad and his wife having dinner with John Kerry and his wife.

Then the civil war broke out. And the U.S. sensed that Assad was too weak and took advantage. ANY strong country would do that. Iran would, Russia would, China would. If you are weak, you get eaten. That’s the laws of the jungle. There’s not some great conspiracy about it, where you need to invoke the deep state to justify it.

Assad gave haven to Sunni Islamist terrorists during the U.S. occupation of Iraq. They would do cross border raids from Syria into Iraq and back. The problem was Assad was too stupid to realize letting tens of thousands of radical Sunnis to jihad next door would come to bite him in the ass 5-7 years later. So of course the blowback eventually happened during the Arab Spring and suddenly those same Sunni Islamists were now attacking his forces. They had built cells all inside his country from the Iraq occupation days. It was short sighted on his end. He played with fire and got burned. Iran bailed him out, but again his economy was suffocated under Caesar sanctions.

The only point I was making was JCPOA should have always been done with republicans and never with democrats. It was doomed to fail once Dems lost control of the White House. Hillary wouldn’t have torn up the JCPOA like Trump did. But the US populous voted for a retard rather than an establishment candidate.

And if you believe that a true long term deal was never possible with the U.S., then that means Iran should have gone to war 10 years ago rather than play this useless waiting game.

Either way whether US is an enemy or not is irrelevant. It controls the world economy for now and praying for its collapse that could take another century or millennium is not a strategy Iran should have ever banked on.

 

[Immortals]

excavators should be stored inside the base, not outside, so it is harder to target them

You cannot just dig yourself out and resume business as usual. You need to reinforce the tunnel and check the structural integrity of the entrance. Repeated strikes will cause vibration, stress, and eventually cracks in the foundation of the concrete.

But even if we ignore that and assume it takes 1-2 days to open an entrance (optimistic). If U.S. bombs the entrances every several days then it can effectively keep the entrances closed.

This isn’t hard to do if it has full control of the airspace in the area. It can even use drones once the airspace is sufficiently weakened.

 

[Liquidator]

You cannot just dig yourself out and resume business as usual. You need to reinforce the tunnel and check the structural integrity of the entrance. Repeated strikes will cause vibration, stress, and eventually cracks in the foundation of the concrete.

But even if we ignore that and assume it takes 1-2 days to open an entrance (optimistic). If U.S. bombs the entrances every several days then it can effectively keep the entrances closed.

This isn’t hard to do if it has full control of the airspace in the area. It can even use drones once the airspace is sufficiently weakened.

Yes they should do a complete structural survey with engineer report, maybe even an architect to design, before they begin any work.



Don't forget your hard hats and high vis jackets. Safety is your number one priority especially when the American B2s are flying overhead.

 

[StrategicBear]

Let's pray to Allah He will cause US soldiers to clumsily blunder a lot in war so Iran can inflict maximum pain, maximum suffering and maximum losses for the warmongering US military, Insha-Alllah, so let's Mass-Dua this and Sholat Hajat praying for IRGC Victory against AmeriKKKan SCUM OF THE EARTH.

 

[StrategicBear]

I will still hold out hope it is avoided.

Tell that to Netanyahu. He wants the "regime" in Iran toppled before Trump leaves office. There's no way out unless a Peace-Loving Israeli PM replaces him.

 

[VCheng]

Tell that to Netanyahu. He wants the "regime" in Iran toppled before Trump leaves office. There's no way out unless a Peace-Loving Israeli PM replaces him.

The leaders of ALL sides involved, not just Netanyahu, need to be told to arrive at a compromise. No side can expect to remain fixated in its own position one-sidedly and then expect only the opposition to accommodate that complexly.

Give a little, get a little in return.

 

[kastor ville]

The Republicans will never let the Democrats be the ones to secure landmark deals with Arabs, Iranians, China, or Russia. That’s reality.

Iran knew when it signed JCPOA that Republicans were against it. That Congress was against it. Yet decided despite that, they should kill their fastest way to a nuclear weapon (Arak Heavy water reactor) from the start.

Yes, both sides contribute weapon systems to Israel it’s a ritual at this point. The bigger the aid you give Israel the less you can be accused of being anti-Israel. It’s Machiavelli politics. Obama gave Israel a big deal at the same time to get enough of his base to support JCPOA. Obama was the only U.S. president to say out loud that Iran had its own strategic interests that should be taken into account. But at the time he said it because Iran was rapidly expanding and their economy was still relatively strong even under early 2010-2015 oil sanctions.



And what is your plan here?

The U.S. is the enemy of Iran’s own doing. Did U.S. tell Iran to take hostages from US embassy like a bunch of religious Daeesh fanatics? Did US tell Iran to go and bomb the U.S. marine Barracks in Lebanon? Did US tell Iran to do the Argentina bombings? Did US tell Khomeini not accept the 1982 ceasefire and march on Karbala and pro long the war another 6 years?? Did US tell Iran to practice ‘neither east nor West’?

Let’s be honest 1980-1995, Iran was a psuedo Islamic radical state that used earliest forms of terrorist attacks to pressure the West. The problem is the revolutionary flame burned out in less than 2 decades. Which is typical in these types of systems (see Cuba, Venezuela, Vietnam, North Korea).

Even Putin called Iran’s leadership crazy in 2003. Let that sink in.

Iran thought with a little oil to thicken its wallet, it can take over the Middle East and stand up to the U.S. and Israel with foreign legions. That as long as it could sell oil no one could stop it. No Air Force, No geo sats, no modern Navy, just some missiles and prayers. It wasn’t a strategy it was suicide.

Nobody on here has a plan. Not that they ever did. The plan the last few years has been resist and resist and resist. NO nukes. No war. NO negotiations. Unfortunately, This isn’t the movie Star Wars, the rebels don’t win against the Evil Empire here. Even nukes at this point will just guarantee that Iran becomes North Korea.

There is no prosperity as long as America remains the enemy.



No it doesn’t. Those are all in storage. Not “aimed”. The only missiles “aimed” were the silos based ones that Iran bragged would be fired within 30 mins of any attack. Yet no missile attack from Iran came for over 24 hours!

Getting missiles out and on TEL takes hours and this time around you can’t bank on Israel flying 1200 miles to bomb them when USAF can penetrate Iranian airspace at will with drones and 5th gen fighters.



Artillery does immense damage in war. It’s the real ground tool of war. Russia’s entire advantage in Ukraine war is its artillery. It fires over 10,000 shells a day.

Seoul can be flattened in hours by artillery teams in NK. Tens of thousands will die in just the first hours alone. Artillery Teams have been set up for years if not decades since the Korean War ended.

Iran fired 800 missiles at Israel and didn’t even kill 500 people. You cannot compare mass artillery salvos with BMs.



Do you have proof none have? U.S. is one of the few countries on that side of the world that has refineries to process Heavy sour crude which is a thick sludge. In fact, Maduro in his last days was begging the U.S. companies to come back. But the incentive is not there anymore with Shale oil producing so much and oil at $60 dollars.

China is Iran circa 2003 with respect to how U.S. is positioned. Remember Haliburton (Dick cheney’s company) had an office in Tehran under Bush administration. The noose on China will tighten once Iran is taken care of. Even now you can see how the cards have been set.

I said on the old PDF that Russia was going to find itself in a tough position as U.S. creeped on its borders. Everyone laughed at me and said The West wouldn’t dare play games with Putin and that Russia would steam roll anyone who tried. Well we see what happened 10 years later, no?

China is next, once its energy security is threatened (Iran), as we know those Arabs will refuse to sell to China once Israel/US give the word. They got no spine.



Why didn’t they file a case when they boarded the Russian Tanker off the coast of England?



Go look at the recent terrorist attack on Chinese company at the mining site in Afghanistan. The video is there to see. There is plenty of other places to get minerals without having to have full security around them 24/7.



Syria was given a deal in 2009. Leave Iran’s orbit and get the Golan back in exchange with a peace deal with Israel (early version of Abraham accord basically). Assad refused. There is well known picture of Assad and his wife having dinner with John Kerry and his wife.

Then the civil war broke out. And the U.S. sensed that Assad was too weak and took advantage. ANY strong country would do that. Iran would, Russia would, China would. If you are weak, you get eaten. That’s the laws of the jungle. There’s not some great conspiracy about it, where you need to invoke the deep state to justify it.

Assad gave haven to Sunni Islamist terrorists during the U.S. occupation of Iraq. They would do cross border raids from Syria into Iraq and back. The problem was Assad was too stupid to realize letting tens of thousands of radical Sunnis to jihad next door would come to bite him in the ass 5-7 years later. So of course the blowback eventually happened during the Arab Spring and suddenly those same Sunni Islamists were now attacking his forces. They had built cells all inside his country from the Iraq occupation days. It was short sighted on his end. He played with fire and got burned. Iran bailed him out, but again his economy was suffocated under Caesar sanctions.

The only point I was making was JCPOA should have always been done with republicans and never with democrats. It was doomed to fail once Dems lost control of the White House. Hillary wouldn’t have torn up the JCPOA like Trump did. But the US populous voted for a retard rather than an establishment candidate.

And if you believe that a true long term deal was never possible with the U.S., then that means Iran should have gone to war 10 years ago rather than play this useless waiting game.

Either way whether US is an enemy or not is irrelevant. It controls the world economy for now and praying for its collapse that could take another century or millennium is not a strategy Iran should have ever banked on.

I mostly agree with what you wrote, except the JCPOA part... No one, not even in the united states, thought trump would become president. Second, did JCPOA was enshrined in the united nations security council, prior to Trump no president ever abrogated that kind of deal.....also, it was designed not to go through congress because the republicans would never let it pass.
Lastly, the iran deal was scuttled by Netanyahu...through Kushner. Never in history did Israel have such a direct line into the president's ear.

 

[Immortals]

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[tsunset]

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[SolarWarden]

I think IF Orange man attacks Iran it will be a decapitation strike and a strike on Iran's missile facilities and capabilities with whatever is left of the nuke program. Last year the mission was to take out nuke program or to set it back so much it will take years and a lot of money and resources. So if that is the mission it is going to succeed because of US capabilities but also because of a.... well if and when it happens I will post why the strike succeeded.