Indian Air Force News and Discussions ll

The problems that France has with Germany, will be 10x worse with India. This is just theatrical posturing to try and force Germany to become a junior "cash" partner.

It is a bad joke. The only thing India can contribute is money, France will happily take their money.

They are more delusional then I thought if they seriously think Dassault will share any sensitive tech with them. If they gave two fingers to their EU neighbours and NATO allies you can imagine the hidden contempt they will treat any Indian "partnership" with.
 
News pouring in.

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look at the highlighted. omg - how embarrassing for them..
 
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I think Su-57 heavy for the time being, and subsequently AMCA which is to enter prototyping phase this year if the contract is signed as promised "in next few months".

Numbers for the Felon would only increase, to ultimately replace Su-30 MKI.
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Though late, this is the right move for India. Still, I doubt they will actually follow through before it's too late.
 
Logically, right now, the IAF is better of cutting their losses on the Tejas, and re-orienting their focus on the AMCA, and chalk up the entire Tejas programme as a "learning experience".

They should focus on trying to make sure the AMCA programme goes smoothly now.

The IAF has a serious problem as it does not have a single engine light platform for the backbone of its fleet to do the bulk of commodity operations. India's options are limited in this space.

I bet India is kicking herself that she did not purchase the Mirage 2000 production line right about now. That would have solved their problems for sure. A Mirage 2000-9 is still a quite effective platform now.

The options are the Gripen-E(excellent platform), F16(F-21), F-35(= NO!) KAI F-50 etc. Su75 would make an excellent co-development project with the benefits of a single engine platform though it will take some time to mature.

They can try and bulk up on more new build Su-30MKI(or upgraded variants) to maintain squadron strength(Su57 will take time to spin up) but the Su-30MKI has proven to be very very ineffective against the PAF with 2 shot down over 2 military confrontations of 2019, and 2025.

Lets see what India does decide to do. Force planning is a real problem for the IAF right now.

India cannot create the AMCA to the requirement they desire which is a proper 5th generation fighter. This is about as challenging as asking me and my friends with mechanical engineering backgrounds to build a hypercar that is the equal performance as a Bugatti Chiron. We may have some of the fundamental knowledge and know the buzzwords but we can't really completely design the thing from ground up. We certainly cannot make it into a reality even if we know how to design and engineer it.

Making things is much, much harder than designing and engineering. Making is the level of superhuman level engineering, above mere design engineering because the calculations, estimations, modelling, testing, restarting and iteration processes are even more complex than theoretical design phase.

People put so much prestige to design engineering when it is the easiest part. The physics is hard, the manufacturing is hard. Putting the known maths and physics applied to design engineering is easy. Everything is known. The hard work at design engineering stage has already been done by the maths and physics people who theorised, created, tested and verified all the laws, formulae, rules, processes, logic the design engineer need only apply. It's a step by step with minimal critical thinking and challenging intellectual demand. The discovery and mastery of the physics and maths is hard (India hasn't got these academic levels that US and China have in spades, nor does India have the infrastructure, institutions, labs, test facilities, equipments and so on... no advanced wind tunnels, no advanced supercomputing and much more precision tooling missing). The manufacturing is hard, just like the physics that establish its foundation. The design is piss easy and possibly the only part me and my mechanical engineering friends can actually do in this make a hypercar challenge. Even if we can get handed the physics because hypercar physics is low level public university knowledge compared to black art of fighter aircrafts, and suppose we can design it and CATIA/Solidworks it all up, how can we loom up the carbon fibre? how can be materialise the engine block?

India has the same capability of building AMCA to the combat performance level of even 2017 J-20 as me and my group of friends has on building a Chiron rivalling hypercar. We'll need billions in investment, we'll need to build warehouses of test facilities, spend 2 decades in R&D, spend another decade testing and iterating and improving. India's HAL, academic institutions, industrial institutions simply do not have what it takes to even design, engineer, manufacture a computer from scratch and all on its own even if it reverse engineers. It doesn't have the tools even if it has the brainpower!
 
Though late, this is the right move for India. Still, I doubt they will actually follow through before it's too late.
Who knows. My guess is 50:50 chances. Since Su-30MKI retirement would create a void for heavy fighters in IAF, and they can't wait for a decade to get a 5th gen aircraft.

Russians themselves screwed Su-57/FGFA by being possessive about their jet not giving any access to IAF/DRDO while taking in money. Otherwise I'm sure it would've been fairly successful as a jet within IAF, as "MKI-sation" would've happened long back.
 
Who knows. My guess is 50:50 chances. Since Su-30MKI retirement would create a void for heavy fighters in IAF, and they can't wait for a decade to get a 5th gen aircraft.

Russians themselves screwed Su-57/FGFA by being possessive about their jet not giving any access to IAF/DRDO while taking in money. Otherwise I'm sure it would've been fairly successful as a jet within IAF, as "MKI-sation" would've happened long back.

You said yourself it was a '50/50 chance.' Personally, my confidence is well above 50%; it’s just the timeline that I have strong reasons to doubt. Things are already late and might be delayed even further in the future but it will happen.
 
Who knows. My guess is 50:50 chances. Since Su-30MKI retirement would create a void for heavy fighters in IAF, and they can't wait for a decade to get a 5th gen aircraft.

Russians themselves screwed Su-57/FGFA by being possessive about their jet not giving any access to IAF/DRDO while taking in money. Otherwise I'm sure it would've been fairly successful as a jet within IAF, as "MKI-sation" would've happened long back.

India actually knew lots about the Su-57 program as a partner back then.

A Sukhoi engineer/staff recently leaked news that the new Byelka upgrade AESA the Su-57M has (I'm calling it M although many Russians disagree but what I mean by this is the latest block Su-57 that differs from the first LRIP batch) is using Chinese sourced GaN based chips. No info given on backend processing but many electronic components (avionics hardware) are Chinese sourced. Western claims in recent months re Russian military electronics hints at this too.

India potentially pulled out of FGFA not due (only) to exposed engine and less stealth than IAF wanted (since that's questionable as Su-57 is the stealthiest fighter IAF can get even today unless you welcome Trump and F-35 conditions). IAF also knew that FGFA could be compromised due to having many Chinese components which means China understands the tip of the spear fighter in IAF if it were to commit to FGFA and also that China can disrupt the supply of equipment or even disrupt it in action. Things obviously unacceptable to IAF.
 
You said yourself it was a '50/50 chance.' Personally, my confidence is well above 50%; it’s just the timeline that I have strong reasons to doubt. Things are already late and might be delayed even further in the future but it will happen.
Even if an order is place in 2028, it won't be delivered before 2031, and that would be Russianised, not "MKI-sed" which would take additional years. Potentially coinciding with AMCA induction timelines. So, I still feel they will probably buy a few and subsequently MKI-ise it with local assembly with HAL.
India actually knew lots about the Su-57 program as a partner back then.

A Sukhoi engineer/staff recently leaked news that the new Byelka upgrade AESA the Su-57M has (I'm calling it M although many Russians disagree but what I mean by this is the latest block Su-57 that differs from the first LRIP batch) is using Chinese sourced GaN based chips. No info given on backend processing but many electronic components (avionics hardware) are Chinese sourced. Western claims in recent months re Russian military electronics hints at this too.

India potentially pulled out of FGFA not due (only) to exposed engine and less stealth than IAF wanted (since that's questionable as Su-57 is the stealthiest fighter IAF can get even today unless you welcome Trump and F-35 conditions). IAF also knew that FGFA could be compromised due to having many Chinese components which means China understands the tip of the spear fighter in IAF if it were to commit to FGFA and also that China can disrupt the supply of equipment or even disrupt it in action. Things obviously unacceptable to IAF.
India was going to ultimately use Indian avionics stack, not Russian origin one with FGFA. Ultimately, up to IAF to decide. I still feel chances are both low and high for different reasons, so 50-50.
 
Even if an order is place in 2028, it won't be delivered before 2031, and that would be Russianised, not "MKI-sed" which would take additional years. Potentially coinciding with AMCA induction timelines. So, I still feel they will probably buy a few and subsequently MKI-ise it with local assembly with HAL.

India was going to ultimately use Indian avionics stack, not Russian origin one with FGFA. Ultimately, up to IAF to decide. I still feel chances are both low and high for different reasons, so 50-50.

Agreed but in my view, I am still more optimistic than you regarding these things becoming a reality, though I am more pessimistic about the timelines; these things will definitely be delayed much further.

Anyway, Being Indian, you know Indian affairs much better than I do, so I value your comments more than my own.
 
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"If the France-Germany-Spain FCAS programme struggles to take off, New Delhi could step in."

Now one needs to sit back and read it aloud and wonder, "step in to do exactly what?" make a Tejas out of it?
 

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