PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

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I think there is a confusion about the video. Let me explain briefly. The dorsal spine can be used for avionics or extra fuel, but China has J-16D so they have no use for J-10'D'. PAF can exploit it if there is a need in future.
Now, about stability. The lateral and directional stability are affected by dorsal and ventral surfaces. The fuselage drop tank installation on FT-7 in PAF was prohibited due to uncontrollable roll rate. Simply put, ventral surfaces will make it unstable and dorsal will make it more stable. Also, at hi-alpha, dorsal spine can prevent rudder-lock and it will improve directional stability during maneuvers, avoiding yaw and sideslip.

It's possible this modification makes the J-10 more suited for the flight regimes that an airshow team may undertake while the military use J-10 don't have this feature because military combat flight optimised speeds and manoeuvre types are very different to airshow ones.

Yes it's possible that this mod was only for airshow but as others have mentioned, this is a common mod for military only use as well e.g. F-16. It provides more room for avionics, fuel and anything else they desire. In PLAAF's case, it's possible the J-10 development direction after J-10C work completed looked at adding conformal tanks and dorsal modification with the knowledge that more powerful engines were available - WS-10C and even WS-15 first generation before it was redesigned. It's just that PLAAF in the late 2010s knows the future of air combat wasn't in J-10 at least that's not a platform it wanted to invest more R&D money in outside of simply receiving more numbers of. CAC of course responds with pause/cancellation of any further distinct blocks and maybe remaining research platforms were repurposed for airshow team. Maybe it conveniently also suits the flight regimes airshow teams commonly perform under.

Either way, I think we shouldn't expect to see more J-10 upgrade blocks that require much retooling for manufacturer so any upgrades to J-10C and J-10CE would be still on the available architecture of the J-10C platform.
 
Can you please explain how a dorsal spine gives more stability? It's not an aerodynamic feature, it houses avionics and maybe fuel, it's a design feature that emerged on twin seat Vipers to make up for the loss of internal volume in the twin seater. The Chinese used it for an air display version of the J10 to house diesel fuel to generate smoke.
the increased directional stability is a side effect, not a primary design goal.
 
I think there is a confusion about the video. Let me explain briefly. The dorsal spine can be used for avionics or extra fuel, but China has J-16D so they have no use for J-10'D'. PAF can exploit it if there is a need in future.
Now, about stability. The lateral and directional stability are affected by dorsal and ventral surfaces. The fuselage drop tank installation on FT-7 in PAF was prohibited due to uncontrollable roll rate. Simply put, ventral surfaces will make it unstable and dorsal will make it more stable. Also, at hi-alpha, dorsal spine can prevent rudder-lock and it will improve directional stability during maneuvers, avoiding yaw and sideslip.
bhai aap yehi Sqd. Ldr (R) Ali Hamza he ho na...🤔😁😂
 
This J-10CE is a good multirole medium fighter. We should try to get more of these birds.

A lot of projects competing for resources within PAF right now, good position to be in but we have to make some hard decisions

1) More J-10Cs?
2) More JF-17Cs?
3) Second line for JF-17C for exports or major expansion of current facilities?
4) J-35?
5) KJ-500
6) New LRSAM
 
J-35 and KJ500 package will come together, but not anytime soon. PAF will go for it together for the 5th Gen kill chain and there is enough time for PAF when looking at things from India's perspective.

In the meantime maybe another J-10 and JF-17BLK III squadron will be added.
 
J-35 and KJ500 package will come together, but not anytime soon. PAF will go for it together for the 5th Gen kill chain and there is enough time for PAF when looking at things from India's perspective.

In the meantime maybe another J-10 and JF-17BLK III squadron will be added.

Well, if you are looking at next 5 years it is a lot of spending. I am also not taking into account any western systems like V upgrade or KAAN, as assuming PAF has now dropped these options....
 
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J-35 and KJ500 package will come together, but not anytime soon. PAF will go for it together for the 5th Gen kill chain and there is enough time for PAF when looking at things from India's perspective.

In the meantime maybe another J-10 and JF-17BLK III squadron will be added.

There is no value in more J10CE's right now. Save the money for the J-35AE and invest in JF17C instead. PAFs future is in the J35AE and KAAN, and not J10CE which was in reality an "emergency buy" by the PAF to offset the Rafale..

There are only 20 J10CE's in service as of now, and the fleet is small enough that PAF can "resell" these J10CE's once the J35AEs come online. This will simplify the future fleet to J-35AE, KAAN, JF17C's( + Alpha)...
 
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Wait wait ... this modification is not new - as explained known since May 2022 - and they did not decide out out the blue to show it at an Air Show now. IMO it is plain and simple what it seems: A modification made for the "Ba Yi", nothing more (at least not yet.).
 
I think there is a confusion about the video. Let me explain briefly. The dorsal spine can be used for avionics or extra fuel, but China has J-16D so they have no use for J-10'D'. PAF can exploit it if there is a need in future.
Now, about stability. The lateral and directional stability are affected by dorsal and ventral surfaces. The fuselage drop tank installation on FT-7 in PAF was prohibited due to uncontrollable roll rate. Simply put, ventral surfaces will make it unstable and dorsal will make it more stable. Also, at hi-alpha, dorsal spine can prevent rudder-lock and it will improve directional stability during maneuvers, avoiding yaw and sideslip.
1. Regarding the EW fighter variant based on the J-10C fighter platform, there are two rumors: a version with a thickened dorsal spine and a version with a bulging fuselage. The version with a thickened dorsal spine has been confirmed as the J-10CY. However, there has been no follow-up information on the bulging fuselage version. From an engineering design perspective, the latter is more likely to be the EW fighter variant.
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2. Technically speaking, developing an EW fighter variant based on the J-10C fighter platform presents no problems. However, many practical issues exist.

EW fighters have extremely high requirements for the airframe platform (power supply capacity, airframe space, heat dissipation capacity, etc.). The J-10C is not an ideal platform. We speculate that the bulging fuselage version of the J-10C may have been some kind of engineering technology verification test version. The PLAAF ultimately did not continue to support this version, indicating that it did not meet operational requirements.

Power supply capacity limits the capabilities of the EW equipment, forcing these expensive EW systems to operate at reduced performance (compared to the J-15D/J-16D). Therefore, the PLAAF widely adopts a simplified solution of externally mounted EW pods and procures more J-16Ds.

Another issue.

EW capability is a default standard feature of the 5th-Gen fighter jet and one of its standard indicators. While its EW capability lags behind dedicated EW fighters in some aspects, the difference in EW combat capability compared to EW fighters based on the J-10C platform is not significant (there is still a gap, but not large). However, the 5th-Gen is more stealthy and has greater survivability when penetrating enemy fire zones.

Meanwhile, although the J-10C fighter platform itself is not expensive, these EW kits are very expensive. ------ For reference: the J-16D fighter jet is approximately 200 million RMB more expensive than the J-16 fighter jet.

Such an EW fighter jet based on the J-10C platform is very similar in price to, or even higher than, the FC-31/J-35 fighter jet. However, its EW performance is not significantly superior.

What would you choose?
J-35 and KJ500 package will come together, but not anytime soon. PAF will go for it together for the 5th Gen kill chain and there is enough time for PAF when looking at things from India's perspective.

In the meantime maybe another J-10 and JF-17BLK III squadron will be added.
In Chinese official media, the term "体系化作战" frequently appears. This term has several English translations, but none are accurate. While it shares some similarities with concepts like "system of systems," JADC2, and network-centric warfare in its English context, there are significant differences. My English is not good enough to accurately convey these details. You can use AI to explain these distinctions yourselves.

If you delve deeper into this concept, you'll realize that for the PAF, the KJ-500 is far more important and has a higher priority than the FC-31/J-35.

In China, there are many papers on "体系化作战," and this is one of them published on the PLA's official website.
It's important to note that this paper cannot be read directly using translation software. Many specific terms will be misinterpreted by translation software. You will need to use AI assistance for in-depth interpretation.
 
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1. Regarding the EW fighter variant based on the J-10C fighter platform, there are two rumors: a version with a thickened dorsal spine and a version with a bulging fuselage. The version with a thickened dorsal spine has been confirmed as the J-10CY. However, there has been no follow-up information on the bulging fuselage version. From an engineering design perspective, the latter is more likely to be the EW fighter variant.
View attachment 180565
2. Technically speaking, developing an EW fighter variant based on the J-10C fighter platform presents no problems.
It was a discussion regarding viability of J-10C for EW role, which is possible if a requirement arises for small air forces. That doesn’t mean we will see it happening. Think of it as a thought experiment about the possibilities.
 
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It was adiscussion regarding viability of J-10C for EW role, which is possible if a requirement arises for small air forces. That doesn’t mean we will see it happening. Think of it as a thought experiment about the possibilities.
I have explained this issue in detail.

1. Technically, it's feasible!

2. PLAAF is unnecessary; it only needs to target the foreign trade market.

3. Economically, it makes no sense.
 
Wait wait ... this modification is not new - as explained known since May 2022 - and they did not decide out out the blue to show it at an Air Show now. IMO it is plain and simple what it seems: A modification made for the "Ba Yi", nothing more (at least not yet.).
I never claimed it is new. I have seen your tweets from 2022 about the platform in yellow primer with a dorsal spine. It was inducted in 2023 in Ba Yi if I remember correctly for LIMA in Malaysia. People asked me about J-16D induction in PAF and I said that is not going to happen. However, if there is an urgent requirement of a fighter with some EW capability, the possibility exists to add extra avionics in this one.
 
I never claimed it is new. I have seen your tweets from 2022 about the platform in yellow primer with a dorsal spine. It was inducted in 2023 in Ba Yi if I remember correctly for LIMA in Malaysia. People asked me about J-16D induction in PAF and I said that is not going to happen. However, if there is an urgent requirement of a fighter with some EW capability, the possibility exists to add extra avionics in this one.

Could we just not buy 6-8 J-16Ds in that case?
 
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