PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[Corax]

the DA-20s were upgraded with modern kit. The airframes themselves are tired, but the kit onboard is the same as the ground based stuff we use. Atleast for comjam, we use the JN1011 onboard the DA20s and on the ground too

But is 2 really enough to cover the airspace? What about availability? Can't see how they managed with just 2 airframes.

 

[Ak01]

But is 2 really enough to cover the airspace? What about availability? Can't see how they managed with just 2 airframes.

its certainly not sufficient, but thats what the global's are for. I dont really think Pakistan currently believes there will be a hot war, hence the kind of lax attitude towards certain things, like a lack of missiles or radars on ships, lack of ERA on tanks or APS, and also cutting in some areas of the air force. That, or no money.

I think however, it will probably be sufficient for limited exchanges like we see currently.

 

[PakShaheen_79]

IMO, the PAF will need to move to larger twin seat fighters to act as control nodes for drones etc at some point. I dont think the PAF could use something like the j35 for this because they will likely need something that is a bit less closed off to be able to integrate other assets to it. Turkish, domestic, Chinese etc.

i wonder what they'd pick though

Well that's a whole new world of oppotunities and challenges. If PAF is going to use drones in strike role through some sort of collaborative setup a lot many variables will have to be sorted out ranging from doctrinal consideration to engineering problems. For example, I can't see any other UCAV apart from Kazilelma that can keep up with fighters in high tempo aerial combat under compressed decision making intervals and high EW environment and this is just the starting point. What kind of release authority will be implemented. Manual, AI assisted (man in the loop) or completely delegrated to AI. Each choice ushers its own consequences in conflict escalation and to be honest neither IAF nor PAF are in position to incorporate such strike capabilities. We haven't seen something like this even from US and China fully activated and tested in actual combat. I think right now, PAF would be better served by finding a solution to have a platform that can offer some serious punch in stirke role.

 

[JamD]

@JamD might be a good time to explain the different types of intercept, particularly how we could be in a better position by using BPI tech perhaps if youve got time

Not on the J10 thread lol.

 

[JamD]

The only need for the fighter platform is survivability in hostile territory.

Bizjets cannot accompany you too far into a deep strike and always are more vulnerable than a more agile platform.

That being said - the way things are moving the quantity needed soon to really break through the EW spectrum especially with what is being stockpiled and integrated in the east is a challenge that requires funds aplenty

But this is never going to be able to align with the PAF's needs anyway. Deep strikes would surely be limited and not too common, rather, for clearing up the immediate threats on the border, having powerful bizjets that can operate within our borders seems far more ideal. Then as the border gets cleaned up, you can start to move closer etc.

For the deep strike missions we've got a fair few escort jammers stocked up, not ideal, but im sure that part of the equation has been planned for.

Hear me out. I think dedicated fighter jammer versions are luxuries that large air forces like USAF and PLAAF can afford and make sense in terms of doctrine.

Now we've always been pretty sure that PAF has wanted some kind of strike option. And this goes to @Oscar 's point.

For our airspace the bizjet solution seems to be working. For strike, I think part of the reason PAF is looking at a twin-engined big boy for strike is onboard EW capabilities. Our strikey boys will need to be neem EW boys too. We haven't been able to build a proper strike element, so building a dedicated EW for strike seems far fetched. Just my opinion.

 

[Corax]

I think deep strike missions are extremely high risk in our scenario, better to opt for long range SOW and ground based strike weapons.

 

[Oscar]

Hear me out. I think dedicated fighter jammer versions are luxuries that large air forces like USAF and PLAAF can afford and make sense in terms of doctrine.

Now we've always been pretty sure that PAF has wanted some kind of strike option. And this goes to @Oscar 's point.

For our airspace the bizjet solution seems to be working. For strike, I think part of the reason PAF is looking at a twin-engined big boy for strike is onboard EW capabilities. Our strikey boys will need to be neem EW boys too. We haven't been able to build a proper strike element, so building a dedicated EW for strike seems far fetched. Just my opinion.

Many are assuming a lot of “plans” within the PAF materialize while ignoring that more often than not there are great ideas that meet the slap of actual resources(of all types) and then either are shelved or tailored to use what’s available.

Lack a Growler - ok , take the block-52s and put another pod on them to somewhat create electronic noise on the escort side.

Now you might put more potent pods on the JF-17.

But other than the Block-52 no other jet can go deep into India so now what do you do?

 

[JamD]

Many are assuming a lot of “plans” within the PAF materialize while ignoring that more often than not there are great ideas that meet the slap of actual resources(of all types) and then either are shelved or tailored to use what’s available.

Lack a Growler - ok , take the block-52s and put another pod on them to somewhat create electronic noise on the escort side.

Now you might put more potent pods on the JF-17.

But other than the Block-52 no other jet can go deep into India so now what do you do?

Hold my hand as we venture in the land of possibility lol:
Squadron of Kaan with custom SOW and EW kit.

 

[Ak01]

Hold my hand as we venture in the land of possibility lol:
Squadron of Kaan with custom SOW and EW kit.

*takes hit*
let me raise you this

 

[hasssanali8998]

Kaan with custom SOW and EW kit.

do u guys really think we will get kaans , like seriously
if the noise about india getting su57 is true then we will also most likely go for a 5th gen

and so far we have two options but we can only get one
j35
kaan ( will not be availble till turks sort out the engine)

i genuinly think the chances of us getting kaan are zero at most turkish stealth drones . j35is the only reasonable choice .

 

[Ak01]

do u guys really think we will get kaans , like seriously
if the noise about india getting su57 is true then we will also most likely go for a 5th gen

and so far we have two options but we can only get one
j35
kaan ( will not be availble till turks sort out the engine)

i genuinly think the chances of us getting kaan are zero at most turkish stealth drones . j35is the only reasonable choice

i would say that the PAF has still not actually committed to J35.

Id also put out there that the Chinese has a pressing need to fill its ranks up with them, plus, they need their kinks ironed out etc, theyre not as close as it seems either.

Though, if India does actually push for SU57's then i can see PAF panic buying some J-35's.

 

[kimjongun]

*takes hit*
let me raise you this
View attachment 180714

 

[Ak01]

View attachment 180715

Hahahaha what a classic. RIP rajabaja. Last I heard the PAF strapped him to a MK83 and used him as a seeker to target Talibs. rip shaheed

 

[TAC]

Why do you again - and in fact I was more than happy that you were absent for so long! - insult me as a jew!? I thought you got a chat with the mods to stop this BS?

And why I added a ? Simply since it is again you typical stupid chest-bumping BS!

@Musings @Mr X

With respect, I’d advise you to put him on ignore. I did that some time ago for my own sanity, when he was arguing that PAF pilots were cowards for not shooting down more Indian jets in May 25 & when I questioned that he asked me if PAF pilots have ever slit a sheep’s throat!?!?, nobody needs to waste time reading & responding to nonsense like that.

 

[Oscar]

Hold my hand as we venture in the land of possibility lol:
Squadron of Kaan with custom SOW and EW kit.

i would say that the PAF has still not actually committed to J35.

Id also put out there that the Chinese has a pressing need to fill its ranks up with them, plus, they need their kinks ironed out etc, theyre not as close as it seems either.

Though, if India does actually push for SU57's then i can see PAF panic buying some J-35's.

So far I see Kaan more along the lines of what is “look busy” for most of people and even leadership involved in it. Majority if that gut feeling is due to paucity of funds and also TAIs own pace and funding/priority/challenges on their end.

The J-35 question is see similar to the J-10 - which the PAF courted and much like the J-35 made official statements on “getting” while barely able to make just the interest(not even principal) payments on existing loans - kudos to Pakistanis for learning how to max out credit cards and using minimum payment due tactics.

But, to the point- when the critical event with Rafale occurred and they bought the minimum they saw needed to negate it. What was more surprising and important was how quickly the J-10 was fit into the overall system architecture so some kudos are due to whoever keeps systems integrations to even this quasi intermediate level (lest we critique that keep in mind USAF had U-2s acting as relays between F-22 and F-35s).

The level of density India is piling on with AD means you need a really crazy amount of power to jam it all up and the bizjet is a good fallback if not perfect. Right now the airbases dont have “modern” environment controlled HAS at all and I would be surprised if the PAF is lax enough to risk putting LO systems in quasi concrete and corrugated steel structures that a Rampage can easily punch through with current AD.