PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[JamD]

The level of density India is piling on with AD means you need a really crazy amount of power to jam it all up and the bizjet is a good fallback if not perfect. Right now the airbases dont have “modern” environment controlled HAS at all and I would be surprised if the PAF is lax enough to risk putting LO systems in quasi concrete and corrugated steel structures that a Rampage can easily punch through with current AD.

PAF might end up thinking this instead and dropping the strike goal (fantasy):

I think deep strike missions are extremely high risk in our scenario, better to opt for long range SOW and ground based strike weapons.

 

[PakShaheen_79]

Many are assuming a lot of “plans” within the PAF materialize while ignoring that more often than not there are great ideas that meet the slap of actual resources(of all types) and then either are shelved or tailored to use what’s available.

Lack a Growler - ok , take the block-52s and put another pod on them to somewhat create electronic noise on the escort side.

Now you might put more potent pods on the JF-17.

But other than the Block-52 no other jet can go deep into India so now what do you do?

This is bitter realities and something which really pisses me off. Look at your governance culture. Rs. 5300 billions lost irregularities and corruption only in 2024-25, Rs. 1600 billion is descreationary grants for all ministries in hands of PM. Our "What's available" dilemma is also a self-inflected wound.

Coming back to topic at hand, how feasible it would be if PAF start a study of making a dual engine JF-17 for strike and EW. R&D cost must be less than developing a say J-10D EW variant which will still be single engine.

 

[PakShaheen_79]

Hold my hand as we venture in the land of possibility lol:
Squadron of Kaan with custom SOW and EW kit.

Great idea but only problem is it is too futuristic. KAAN is long away from induciton in TuAF, let alone PAF. Not gonna happen anytime in next one decade.

 

[Deino]

No.8
Haiders

View attachment 180724

Wrong thread? It's clearly not a J-10CE!

 

[ghazi52]

Wrong thread? It's clearly not a J-10CE!

My bad, deleted.

 

[Ak01]

So far I see Kaan more along the lines of what is “look busy” for most of people and even leadership involved in it. Majority if that gut feeling is due to paucity of funds and also TAIs own pace and funding/priority/challenges on their end.

The J-35 question is see similar to the J-10 - which the PAF courted and much like the J-35 made official statements on “getting” while barely able to make just the interest(not even principal) payments on existing loans - kudos to Pakistanis for learning how to max out credit cards and using minimum payment due tactics.

But, to the point- when the critical event with Rafale occurred and they bought the minimum they saw needed to negate it. What was more surprising and important was how quickly the J-10 was fit into the overall system architecture so some kudos are due to whoever keeps systems integrations to even this quasi intermediate level (lest we critique that keep in mind USAF had U-2s acting as relays between F-22 and F-35s).

The level of density India is piling on with AD means you need a really crazy amount of power to jam it all up and the bizjet is a good fallback if not perfect. Right now the airbases dont have “modern” environment controlled HAS at all and I would be surprised if the PAF is lax enough to risk putting LO systems in quasi concrete and corrugated steel structures that a Rampage can easily punch through with current AD.

one thing i would say though is HAS might not necessarily be the way forward. I dont think theres any reasonable amount of concrete thats stopping a penetrating warhead.

The PAF should be focusing on dispersed ops?

The issues are that our roads likely cant handle the weight of our heavier planes. Now we could either re inforce those- unlikely, or, we could look at a redesigned gear, air india did this with their 320s for airfields where the ACN was too high.

 

[Oscar]

one thing i would say though is HAS might not necessarily be the way forward. I dont think theres any reasonable amount of concrete thats stopping a penetrating warhead.

The PAF should be focusing on dispersed ops?

The issues are that our roads likely cant handle the weight of our heavier planes. Now we could either re inforce those- unlikely, or, we could look at a redesigned gear, air india did this with their 320s for airfields where the ACN was too high.

View attachment 180729

Leave that to contractors looking to make a quick buck - one could potentially outsource “runroad” building to the Chinese in the hope that the project is done properly compared to the civil engineering fraud run for Pakistan’s roads

On that note - dispersal is also an issue with today’s speed of information so perhaps the solution is a combination of dispersal and hardening not just the shelters but also overall airbase AD.

The biggest issue is always depth -
You are a relatively thin piece of land( and airspace)

So your first bet is how you undertake reduction of predictability, identify ability, and then how you preserve minimum viable operations through redundancy in critical ground functions.

This means you rotate aircraft around - heck if the Saab at Bholari was simply rotated from Hangar to outside and back on and off you would have prevented the damage it took… weapons are not instantaneous especially with the stand off ranges the Indians are going to employ . The goal is to exploit the delay between their eyes and their decisions.

Then it’s decoys where you create with visual, thermal and radar signatures of actual aircraft. Pakistan is far behind in my view in doing this and India is very good.

Russians have wasted so many missiles even when cued within minutes through their SAR and imSATs just because what they thought was an actual aircraft was not so at high resolution.

No more of the shoddy wooden block type jets, commission the same folks you have on standby for your usual NASTP VIP tour fakery to actually create lifesize models of your jets that you can move around and more importantly generate IR signatures from.

It’s not rocket science to do a IR signature view of a J-10 and then replicate it mostly with a gas heater on overdrive or even the bbq metal trash can they do their tikkas on.

See what Metinvest does in Ukraine.

But the key is building in drills and tasks to really fake it all out.

A real J-35 wont sit outside forever - so you tow that decoy to a HAS - turn it on there - take it back out so it simulates movement.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Hope our remaining order of J10C arrived did the initial batch complete ?
The initial batch delivery proved quite important asset

Any plans for additional J10C from China?

 

[studsmart]

Hope our remaining order of J10C arrived did the initial batch complete ?
The initial batch delivery proved quite important asset

Any plans for additional J10C from China?

we will know it soon

 

[Pogic]

one thing i would say though is HAS might not necessarily be the way forward. I dont think theres any reasonable amount of concrete thats stopping a penetrating warhead.

The PAF should be focusing on dispersed ops?

The issues are that our roads likely cant handle the weight of our heavier planes. Now we could either re inforce those- unlikely, or, we could look at a redesigned gear, air india did this with their 320s for airfields where the ACN was too high.

View attachment 180729

I don't think road ops should be emphasized. There are about 139 airstrips in Pakistan, some in worse conditions than others but a lot are definitely usable. Main issue is ensuring logistics for dispersed ops is sufficient, some of these places definitely do not have access to jet fuel and are far from any weapons storage.

 

[Ali_Baba]

I don't think road ops should be emphasized. There are about 139 airstrips in Pakistan, some in worse conditions than others but a lot are definitely usable. Main issue is ensuring logistics for dispersed ops is sufficient, some of these places definitely do not have access to jet fuel and are far from any weapons storage.

Sweden is a good model to replicate on this. It is possible. Ukraine has adopted some of Sweden's approach, which is why Russia finds it difficult to take out jets on the ground as they are continuously moving between bases faster than Russia can detect and shoot at them.

 

[Ak01]

I don't think road ops should be emphasized. There are about 139 airstrips in Pakistan, some in worse conditions than others but a lot are definitely usable. Main issue is ensuring logistics for dispersed ops is sufficient, some of these places definitely do not have access to jet fuel and are far from any weapons storage.

not all runways are suitable! for the same reason as roads. ACN/PCN or whatever the mil equiv is

 

[hasssanali8998]

A lot more than you can imagine

 

[Ak01]

Hi,

A lot more than you can imagine---. It is not 'rocket science'---.

It is just simple basics---. People talk---the love to talk about their work---they love to look important---they spill out information to look importatnt on these talk forums---.

If you did not know that much---you are so beneath in basic knowledge about espionage that you are not worth it to discuss---.

its quite funny, you responded to my post on tuesday, i laughed at you, after feeling humilated, you deleted it, and tried again today.

 

[CSAW]

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As reference PLAAF J-10C with 雷霆 LT-2 500kg laser-guided bombs, good for both land and sea targets.