Pakistan Navy Gun Boats - News / Discussion

yesnt.

id keep an eye on this, a very keen and close eye.

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PAF and China have ample SD-10 stocks. Pak also has an SD-10 production line.

What is happening here is they're re using SD-10, just forward of the motor, mating it with a new motor/body to give you an entire family of SAM's.

This could genuinely be quite a good proposal for the PN. The only thing is that these may just be recycling the older SD10 electronics, but, there is an upgrade if you want to call it that, rather, a new variant of the SD-10 which for all intents and purposes is a deep modernisation, with AMRAAM D ranges and an AESA seeker from the PL-15. Could possibly be a very good option for a modern family of naval air defence SAM's.

This is the sky dragon family of missiles.

The lowest range shorads here has a range of 20km, with the skydragon 100 extending to 100km. Its just larger than the CAMM-ER and thus could probs be 4packed in a larger cell like the chinese use on the D's.
It’s not just the range, the HQ-16FE has a 160 km range, but is an older missile with high weight relative to more modern missiles, if we go on the Shtil missile the HQ-16FE is based on.

Lower weight and the maneuverability that gives the missile in the terminal phase to maximize the probability of a hit, are vital, as pointed out in a recent Quwa podcast.

The CAMM family of missiles are light. I hope the SD-10 missiles are nearly as light and have as powerful propellant, as well as possibly a dual pulse rocket motor, along with an upgrade AESA seeker.

I’ll keep an eye out for this SD-10 approach. It seems promising, especially considering we have a domestic line to produce the missiles. At this point we might as well upgrade the line to make the PL-15, as it fits the parameters I mentioned above (dual pulse, AESA seeker) and China has moved on to the PL-16.
 
The type of VLS is less important than what its certified for. Sylver and Mk41 are currently the only VLS that CAMM is certified on outside of its own GSW. 26. The MDAS has the capacity to do so but Turkey and Italy need to agree to perform the integration. China and Italy would never agree to it (hence no UVLS as the mainstay). Sylver is a French product and France will never sell this to Pakistan due to indian pressure. Not to mention, its tremendously expensive. But in order to defend against Brahmos (both the fleet and coastal areas) yes PN needs to invest in a surface fleet with higher missile capacity. Best option at itd disposal is CAMM-ER/MDAS combo.


Matching missile to missile is not actually sufficient because Pakistan will need to have 2-3 SAMs missiles per Brahmos it wants to shoot down. If Pakistan doesnt have more SAMs than India has Brahmos you are in real trouble. And that has been a glaring openning in Pakistan's armor for many years. What PN doesnt need to do is match IN ship for ship. I think many have taken this notion a bit too far however to be the same as saying PN doesnt really need to advance it's surface fleet and focus exclusively on sub fleet. Without air defense, the subs will be quickly hunted down by Poseiden and surface ships. And air wings are not enough to provide that for a number of reasons including the fact that aircrat cant defend against brahmos launched from ground and sea. And there will not be enough aircraft for Pakistan to defend Pakistani airspace, ASW/AEWC/Special missions craft, and attack IN with reliability while also launching strikes against India proper. The strategy must be multi faceted air defense from Aircraft, ground and sea based SAMS. Lets not forget that while damage was limited India/Brahmos was able to hit Pakistani airbases during operation Sindoor. The coastal advantage over PN/PAF air defense is far more prominent so PAF bases will likely not be able to launch aircraft unimpeded, so increasing the layered air defense is necessary.
IMHO the Surface fleet(Major Combatants) mission in peace time is for:

Force projection
EEZ Enforcement against strong incursions
Anti Piracy operations if necessary
And Rescue operations if need be.

However, most of the above ops can be be done, effectively, by OPV's that PN has built up.

In wartime the Main Surface Combatant roles are:

Protection of SLOC through:
ASW sweeps (Here PN is weak without an effective ASW HELO)
Anti Surface Sweeps
Interdiction of enemy maritime traffic
Its own Point Defence through SAM/and last ditch CWIS
Essentially an area denial role.

On the offensive side, its role with air-cover might be:
Limited Land Strike with four LAM's per boat.
Surface to Surface strike
Point Defence through SAM/and last ditch CWIS

IMHO these surface groups will not operate without air cover given their current range of SAM's.

Again in my humble opinion, our strike element and sea denial is based upon our sub fleet that really does not require air cover to operate.

In no way I am not a proponent of shore based long range Surface to Surface batteries (Our last layer of defence), littoral combat vessels, Helo based littoral ASW
fleet, Major Surface Combatant, LRMP Squadrons or effective Maritime Interdiction through air refuel able Block III's (Ideally these need to beefed up to three squadrons; two base at Masroor and another at Pasni armed for Anti Ship strike and self defense.

The key to the above is situational awareness in our pond; Arabian Sea and its approaches. This would require dedicated AWACS that currently seems to be in China converting to EW platforms. We need to beef up our AWACS coverage in South with crafts flying out of Turbat along with our LRMP based out of there.

Submarines by the nature and deployment are used for long range interdiction and does not and should not require air cover otherwise it defeats the purpose of a silent killer waiting for the classic ambush.

My 2C Worth
 
IMHO the Surface fleet(Major Combatants) mission in peace time is for:

Force projection
EEZ Enforcement against strong incursions
Anti Piracy operations if necessary
And Rescue operations if need be.

However, most of the above ops can be be done, effectively, by OPV's that PN has built up.

In wartime the Main Surface Combatant roles are:

Protection of SLOC through:
ASW sweeps (Here PN is weak without an effective ASW HELO)
Anti Surface Sweeps
Interdiction of enemy maritime traffic
Its own Point Defence through SAM/and last ditch CWIS
Essentially an area denial role.

On the offensive side, its role with air-cover might be:
Limited Land Strike with four LAM's per boat.
Surface to Surface strike
Point Defence through SAM/and last ditch CWIS

IMHO these surface groups will not operate without air cover given their current range of SAM's.

Again in my humble opinion, our strike element and sea denial is based upon our sub fleet that really does not require air cover to operate.

In no way I am not a proponent of shore based long range Surface to Surface batteries (Our last layer of defence), littoral combat vessels, Helo based littoral ASW
fleet, Major Surface Combatant, LRMP Squadrons or effective Maritime Interdiction through air refuel able Block III's (Ideally these need to beefed up to three squadrons; two base at Masroor and another at Pasni armed for Anti Ship strike and self defense.

The key to the above is situational awareness in our pond; Arabian Sea and its approaches. This would require dedicated AWACS that currently seems to be in China converting to EW platforms. We need to beef up our AWACS coverage in South with crafts flying out of Turbat along with our LRMP based out of there.

Submarines by the nature and deployment are used for long range interdiction and does not and should not require air cover otherwise it defeats the purpose of a silent killer waiting for the classic ambush.

My 2C Worth
In war time our current ships may be used as point defense but the reality is that thisnis because they haven't been loaded out effectively for modern threats they will face. The biggest issue is they need to be effective against Brahmos enough to defend themselves and surrounding area (be it other ships or naval resources on lang or even city of Karachi). Them sailing under air cover is not the point. The indian aircraft themselves will always be out of range of the ships SAMs, and our aircraft wont be able to shoot down brahmos. So we again need to defend ships and land against this threat. Operation Sindoor showed Pakistan doesnt bave effective cointer on Land for this let alone at sea. If PN cant shoot them down, it is a matter of hours to days before PAF bases at the coast will be destroyed and now the supposed air cover PN had will be gone or pushed back. Without said air cover PN surface ships will be sitting ducks and the Subs will fall quick prey to ASW from IN Ships and Poseidons.

So PN needs to effectively improve it ship mounted air defense. Surface attack should be tertiary role (after AA and ASW roles). To that end coproduction of MDAS will allow PN to encorporate CAMM-ER locally and then add Siper as well. A 16 cell system could load out 64 CAMM-ER which at 45 (more probably 60-85km) range can provide effective flotilla level defense against Brahmos, especially if F-22P are also. Refit with with 8 cell MDAS (similar to Naresuan upgrade) to house 32 CAMM-ER along with Genesis style upgrade would be amazing for PN. Along with putting 8 cell VLS for Baburs and Yarmooks. A flotilla of JCF with 16 cells, babur, Yarmook or F-22p with 8 cells would be reasonably good at projecting against Brahmos attacks from sea (and if in Karachi harbor, could effectively protect much of Karachi itself). But PN mucb like PA has never given proper attention and importance to aor defense.
 
For those who actually like fact, and not bullshit. As outlined by Adm Abbasi:

To eliminate this constraint, the PN will move towards a fleet of over 50 ships, of which 20 will be “major surface ships.” In terms of major surface combatants, Adm. Abbasi revealed that the PN will receive four Type 054A/P frigates from China between 2021 to 2023. In addition, the four MILGEM corvettes will join the PN fleet from 2023 to 2025. The PN inducted its first 2,300-ton “corvette” – which is based on Damen Shipyard’s OPV-1900 design – in early 2020, and the second ship, PNS Tabouk, will join in November of this year. The outgoing CNS added that “six additional ships of larger tonnage are being contracted.”

So 20 large vessels, 30 small vessels. Gunboat/fac's etc.

2 Yarmook, 4 Tughril, 4 F22P, 4 Babur.
What about the Jinnah Class?
Whats its timeline for delivery?
 
What about the Jinnah Class?
Whats its timeline for delivery?
Given we just start building them, I'd say around 2028 end to 2029 start. What I really want to see is when and how soon we will get our Hangoor class subs, they are long overdue.
 
2 will definitely come this year
lets hope so because we can bet that next conflict Indians will send their ships to coast of Karachi, more Mijjailes and more ships. We need an effective submarine force to ambush IN ships or just having 4-6 AIP submarines lurking in waters can make IN think twice to be close to positioning where they can block Karachi port.
 
i still come back to this joke lmao
https://defencepk.com/forums/threads/pakistan-af-operation-khyber-storm.27677/post-979762

best posts here
 
https://defencepk.com/forums/threads/pakistan-af-operation-khyber-storm.27677/post-979762

best posts here
LMAO BHAI MEIN NA SEHTA:rofl:
 
Considering the growing needs of the nation, and potential to enter export markets, any indication Pakistan is building Fishing vessels for deep ocean long endurance? This same technology could be used to make manned or unmanned patrol ships, with long endurance, to patrol at least the EEZ.

A lot of the long distance fishing boats look like 40 footers. A similar sized unmanned boat is made by Trextron. Pakistan could develop a similar sized hull, and sell it to local fisherman (or local investors in the fishing industry) as well as the Navy. Advancements in passive propulsion, such as solar sail could help alienate the fuel and range issues, opening up fishing grounds for local fisherman and supporting the long endurance needs of the navy.

 
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