Operation Ghazab Lil Haq (Pakistan - Afghanistan War)

[krash]

That would make sense if the other side was following the Same rules, the reason armies don't typically execute prisoners or mutilate corpses is because the same can be done to your own but the taliban don't follow these rules so it doesn't make sense for us to follow them.

The same reason you tell your kid to defend his/herself without being a jerk in response. You and your military are not stuck in 3000 BC.

 

[Jango]

But there is an inflection point where people who have nothing will simply react by doing nothing. At that time your then get into a case of forever conflict.


Quite literally the TTP could still continue with flintlocks and molotovs because they are one and the same with TTA today.

Precisely my point. How far away are we from that inflection point?

The argument now is that the TTA/IEA have a country to run and they will be more sensible.

They were in the same position in the 90's. Had an arguably better governance structure then, but they let it all go and were content with getting pounded to kingdom come. Those people have known nothing but mud huts, goat herding, opium and jahalat for the better part of the last 30 odd years. India is more than content to keep giving them enough to survive, coupled with Chinese investments of late.

So where do we go from here? Destroying a "Corps HQ" or a "Ammo dump" of someone who has been fighting with an AK and sandals for all his life isn't really the degradation in caapbility we would think it is. The nuisance value still remains.

So unless you’re willing to basically daisy cutter every village and thermobaric bomb every cave some 200km in depth(if you actually had those weapons) from the border and then run constant surveillance - your hope is that some leadership emerges that basically stops the TTP posture in general from a LE perspective and then your own more reinforced posts and border “walls” is able to stop the remaining trickle.

Add power plants, hospitals, commercial centers, the Green Zone, basically adopt the Israeli scorched earth tactic (we can't do any of that).

Otherwise, hopes and prayers are what's left in the end I guess.

IMO, unless this generation of Haqqanis and Akhundzadas leaves the world (not killed) and new leadership evolves from within, we'd be stuck in this cycle of low intensity conflict. But even then it's just a hope and prayer.

This is NO POLITICAL solution as fancied by members here either because they live in a fools paradise of assuming people whose livelihood has/is and will likely be until end of times - to go fire 4 mags at someone for $200 while wearing the same pair of clothes for three weeks and using a nestle water bottle - and then come back to make babies, reap opium or small batch crop for $50 - and then repeat the cycle while feeling satisfied with their self from a religious, psychological and monetary perspective.

Even if a political solution can be reached with the IEA, the TTP would not budge, and the intertwined dynamics of the two get us to square one again.

There's no political or military solution to this, but just situation management where we keep things on a simmer until something gives. When or how....who knows?

 

[Jango]

Who's trying to kill them?

Bomb their control and offensive apparatus; arms depots, military installations, control nodes ->make tenuous Taliban's control against internal and external local factions and reduce their military capabilities against Pakistan = Possibly more malleable and certainly less capable TTA. An active or passive buffer zone could also be thought off

Sustained intense military pressure isn't about killing people.

Yes...control nodes...they've got a C4I base station with satellite datalinks from where they control their ops, they've got EME depots where they repair their tanks and helis, they've got weapons production facilities where they machine the highest quality missiles and rockets.

 

[krash]

Yes...control nodes...they've got a C4I base station with satellite datalinks from where they control their ops, they've got EME depots where they repair their tanks and helis, they've got weapons production facilities where they machine the highest quality missiles and rockets.

Did not expect disingenuous statements from yourself. C'mon Jango. The Taliban don't run on wifi and prayers. Neither did the PKK, nor the Babylonians.

 

[maxpane]

View attachment 185239
View attachment 185240
LOL

Ohhh no walking dead

 

[That_Guy]

On a serious note, what exactly is the end game here?

We keep on bombing and pounding and all...to what end?

As much as we would love it, we aren't going to kill them all with these strikes.

And the TTA aren't going to suddenly banish or take a heavy handed stance with TTP, since they are very much intertwined in their society, through family relations, tribal affiliation, or simply social assimilation.

So...we think we can force TTA to start operating against TTP in Afghanistan if we keep bombing them? What's the end game exactly?

Its not a matter of killing them all, its a matter of making them war weary. Its pretty clear that this is a one sided fight at this point, as the taliban have very few ways to fight back, and with little to no success at that.

The goal is to get them to relent to Pakistani demands.

Its not a matter of gaining victory for Pakistan, its a matter of getting the Afghans to finally take action against the ttp for their own interests.

 

[Expert]

Yes...control nodes...they've got a C4I base station with satellite datalinks from where they control their ops, they've got EME depots where they repair their tanks and helis, they've got weapons production facilities where they machine the highest quality missiles and rockets.

Taliban government is going to be very vulnerable Once they loses their stockpile and American leftovers weapon. They are only able to rule Afghanistan only because of American leftovers weapon and armoured vehicles. I think AKs are no longer a problem and don't pose any serious threats to our SF. Most taliban ambush happens at night because of NVGs and long range snipers . Even now taliban only respond to Pakistani attacks at night because of very same reason. We can effectively take this war back to Afghanistan Once their ammo stockpile deplets and their grip over Afghanistan will also started to get loose. I don't know why China want to Patron such a regime when they can literally watch what's happening to Iran. Iran was infact a very strong country still they're not able to provide security gurentee to Chinese investment.

 

[Expert]

Yes...control nodes...they've got a C4I base station with satellite datalinks from where they control their ops, they've got EME depots where they repair their tanks and helis, they've got weapons production facilities where they machine the highest quality missiles and rockets.

Also we have to stop taliban from building any serious capability. Remember they are even dreaming of building dams on Pakistani rivers with the help of India. We can't have a snake like Afghanistan in our backyard. Goal should be to push taliban at least 20 km away from border. I am sure that their local proxies like TTP/BLA will also started to fade when their supplies cut off. Look at weapons captured from BLA/TTP when they are eliminated. If we don't destroy it in Afghanistan they'll bring them here and kill us anyway. So better evaporate it in Afghanistan.

 

[Jango]

Just wondering where this "large chunk" of the population sat when "Memogate" came to fore? Or when PML/Sharif's were accused of being too close to India?

They rallied to the flag. This is what is expected of ALL Pakistanis when external threats/attacks are being mounted on the country. Iranians are a case in point. They have their difference with the ruling Mullah party, but when aggressed, they rallied to the flag. Indians, of all different hue and color, rally to the flag anytime India is perceived to be under attack.

So why these double-standards for the PTI base? Did the rest of Pakistan not take PPP, PML, MQM, and some of the fringe Baloch parties/base to task when they were perceived to be anti-state?

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with what you are saying here. No need to divulge into hypotheticals, we already saw how everyone rallied behind the flag when the Indo-Pak conflict happened.

Appealing to emotion might seem an attractive option to raise hub-ul-watni, but these things only go so far and the the debt accumulates eventually.

You're already seeing a teaser with what's going on in Balochistan, don't let it become mainstream.

 

[Jango]

Its not a matter of killing them all, its a matter of making them war weary.

Are you seriously wanting to make the same people war weary who have been at war for the past 30 odd years?

Its not a matter of gaining victory for Pakistan US, its a matter of getting the Afghans to finally take action against the ttp Al Qaeda for their own interests.

 

[That_Guy]

Are you seriously wanting to make the same people war weary who have been at war for the past 30 odd years?

Me? Nope.

I say kill the top leadership, and balkanize the country, that's always been my stance. I actually don't like this slow burn, and think its stupid.

I also don't agree with your comparison. The US lost because it was a far off foreign invader, trying to build a puppet nation. Pakistan is a local nation trying to force its neighbour to see reason, and is not going anywhere so it has all the time in the world. Pakistan is also not trying to do a regime change, and is okay with the TTA being in power, so long as they do the bare minimum to be good neighbours.

By definition, the US was on the clock; Pakistan is not.

 

[Blain2]

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with what you are saying here. No need to divulge into hypotheticals, we already saw how everyone rallied behind the flag when the Indo-Pak conflict happened.

Appealing to emotion might seem an attractive option to raise hub-ul-watni, but these things only go so far and the the debt accumulates eventually.

You're already seeing a teaser with what's going on in Balochistan, don't let it become mainstream.

I feel differently about it. Not saying we should continue to antagonize the PTI base and I have been a proponent of working out a solution to bring PTI back into the mainstream as a national party so their cadres don't go to extremes. However, external threats to the country are above and beyond the dislike for the incumbents in the office. People seem to lose sight of this fact.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

I feel differently about it. Not saying we should continue to antagonize the PTI base and I have been a proponent of working out a solution to bring PTI back into the mainstream as a national party so their cadres don't go to extremes. However, external threats to the country are above and beyond the incumbents in the office. People seem to lose sight of this fact.

Bringing PTI back into the mainstream is certainly being tried but it is being made close to impossible because they refuse to acknowledge national security threats internally and externally because of their own ego & ignorance, and after radicalising their own support base on all sorts of conspiracy theories and narratives it is becoming hard for them to shift back into normalcy.

 

[Goenitz]

On a serious note, what exactly is the end game here?

We keep on bombing and pounding and all...to what end?

As much as we would love it, we aren't going to kill them all with these strikes.

And the TTA aren't going to suddenly banish or take a heavy handed stance with TTP, since they are very much intertwined in their society, through family relations, tribal affiliation, or simply social assimilation.

So...we think we can force TTA to start operating against TTP in Afghanistan if we keep bombing them? What's the end game exactly?

that they can prevail Islam in Pak like they 'have' done in Afg through perennial patience fighting.
A narrative is needed that they can't and they shouldn't.
That is why the army tried to bring them back that US jihad is over, and the 'state' can forgive, so settle back.

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[side-winder]

Airstrikes resume....