Hangor Class Submarine | Updates & Discussion

[kmc_chacko]

Relax buddy, China knew damn well that they will be fighting a coalition if it comes to that and hence they are preparing like no other country, give them 10-15 years and you will see them matching with USN in Destroyers, AC's, Submarines and long range Anti-ship BM's, and that is their power. Iran is hitting several countries/Military bases so imagine what China can do specially to the countries like Japan who they resent a lot due to past war crimes.

China can build but lacks on field experience.

US always uses excuses to test its equipment's on innocent people - Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine now in Iran - can anyone rationally explain what world got from it ? answer is NIL/NOTHING/ZERO - but US is documenting it for enhancing its lethality.

 

[Starlord]

China can build but lacks on field experience.

US always uses excuses to test its equipment's on innocent people - Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine now in Iran - can anyone rationally explain what world got from it ? answer is NIL/NOTHING/ZERO - but US is documenting it for enhancing its lethality.

True but we can't just say that because Chinese lack real war experience they can't create a multi-domain kill chain of their own, like i said militarily Iran didn't have any experience either, fighting a asymmetric warfare is not same as fighting a all out war against a competent adversary, PLAAF/PLAAN are preparing themselves for that scenario, don't you think that something that obvious that PLAAF/PLAAN doesn't have a combat experience wouldn't have come into discussion by their strategic planners? Of course it must've and they will be prepared when the time comes, how prepared only time will tell but for this particular thread, and their support for PN will only be limited to providing intelligence to PAF/PN and that will be enough to make sure IN does not block Karachi port.

 

[Ibbi32]

Relax buddy, China knew damn well that they will be fighting a coalition if it comes to that and hence they are preparing like no other country, give them 10-15 years and you will see them matching with USN in Destroyers, AC's, Submarines and long range Anti-ship BM's, and that is their power. Iran is hitting several countries/Military bases so imagine what China can do specially to the countries like Japan who they resent a lot due to past war crimes.

Also also PN although weak but won't be expecting Chinese Navy to come rescue, all PN will need is information which the most important thing China can provide us, and the rest PN will have prepare for IN. Now that doesn't negate that IN can't do anything but it won't be a one sided fight as many Indians believe, and remember Indians still believe that IAF can handle PAF with just mig/m2k's and SU's while in both 2019-2025 have their booty handed to them. PN surface fleet is weak hence they are building a sizeable Submarine fleet, and as some members pointed out IN has a huge coast line to defend which IN can't properly, PN can/will find loopholes in your ASW reach to sneak a sub or 2 for attacks on your ships/infrastructures. As for Surface fleet will be mostly for defense role as they will try to deny any air attacks on ports like Karachi or Gwadar.

Also, let not forget that Pakistan also have a significant numbers of Coastal batteries with Anti ship missiles ranging between 100-400 km. Pakistan has a very small coastline and for that PN although not super strong but a formidable force and its only keep getting better with time, just a couple of systems that will be joining in next few years are Submarines, Babur Class Frigates, Jinnah Class Frigates, Sea Sultan MPA's and may as @Ak01 mention SWAT's wont be far behind.

People forget but even relatively small PN is the strongest navy east of turkey/egypt and west of India. Strongest navy in entire gulf arabian sea and WIOR

 

[kmc_chacko]

True but we can't just say that because Chinese lack real war experience they can't create a multi-domain kill chain of their own, like i said militarily Iran didn't have any experience either, fighting a asymmetric warfare is not same as fighting a all out war against a competent adversary, PLAAF/PLAAN are preparing themselves for that scenario, don't you think that something that obvious that PLAAF/PLAAN doesn't have a combat experience wouldn't have come into discussion by their strategic planners? Of course it must've and they will be prepared when the time comes, how prepared only time will tell but for this particular thread, and their support for PN will only be limited to providing intelligence to PAF/PN and that will be enough to make sure IN does not block Karachi port.

Iran was always testing its equipment's against Israel via Hamas, Hizballah or sending its militia to Syrian wars, that's the reason they are holding up now. They studied Israel war tactics and improvised it, the only thing Chinese military lack now is real war experience, especially type of which US is enjoying.

China is trying to catch up and that's the reason they are sending their Liaowang 1, D-55s to Persian Gulf. but, unless China do not directly involved, these knowledge are good for syllabus & mock drill only.

Primary reason for different attitude of US & China is. US is fighting its wars in other continents and nowhere connected to their mainland. Where are China's problems are parked just outside of their country.

 

[Starlord]

Iran was always testing its equipment's against Israel via Hamas, Hizballah or sending its militia to Syrian wars, that's the reason they are holding up now. They studied Israel war tactics and improvised it, the only thing Chinese military lack now is real war experience, especially type of which US is enjoying.

China is trying to catch up and that's the reason they are sending their Liaowang 1, D-55s to Persian Gulf. but, unless China do not directly involved, these knowledge are good for syllabus & mock drill only.

Primary reason for different attitude of US & China is. US is fighting its wars in other continents and nowhere connected to their mainland. Where are China's problems are parked just outside of their country.

We will keep going in circle, lets agree to disagree...

 

[Starlord]

People forget but even relatively small PN is the strongest navy east of turkey/egypt and west of India. Strongest navy in entire gulf arabian sea and WIOR

PN is small but definitely not a walk in the park, and once the Subs are here along with Sea sultan's it will become a much deadlier force.

 

[Oscar]

i think the hopes of any nuke boats from China should be shelved.

Original plans for nuke boats never had China involvement from a “give us a hull” perspective. However the realization probably dawned that for KSEW to truly produce a “new” cobbled together design requires expertise and even “buying” that experience and equipment requires funds that dont or cannot exist in any near term.

The triad however is patchwork “ready”.

 

[surkha]

I think that PN is still pursuing its indigenous nuclear submarine program, but progress appears to be slow. There were reports about Pakistan testing motors for an IRBM, which could potentially be intended for an SLBM platform. However, without foreign investment or assistance, achieving this capability seems unlikely. It is also uncertain whether the PA would allow the PN to develop such a capability or consider it a priority.


Additionally, does anyone know if hypersonic missiles will be integrated with the Hangor-class submarines? There have been reports suggesting that China has integrated the YJ-19 with the Hangor class, while the YJ-17 is already expected to be part of the system. Is the PN planning any technology transfer (ToT) for these systems?

 

[Waz]

China's worries are larger than India's, it is not only US, they also need to take care of Japan, Korea & other US ally's, hence China is building up rapidly.

But, seeing vast experienced USN struggle against Iran, it will be far cry for China if they involve in conflict between India & Pakistan. Further, IN not needed to match PLAN by numbers, IN needs to maintain force level to keep China under check.

If China didn't came all out for Iran then the possibility of PLAN getting involved in PN vs IN conflict is negligent.

China will provide satellite & intelligence in real-time just like they done in recent conflict. But, outright involvement ? that's not going to happen.

No, If you think the Koreans are going to fight by the side of the Japanese against China then that's pure fantasy. They hate them and would rather see them go under.

Yes see the USN struggle against Iran, I can't imagine how much worse it would be for India v Pakistan, which unlike Iran has a credible Navy. India is not able to keep China in 'check' considering it's vast disparity at every level.
Why would China come all out for Iran when there is no strategic relationship? They never have had defense ties of any sorts. Are you confusing them for Russia?
Pakistan doesn't need outright intervention but ships to replace losses, missiles etc, which China can supply in massive numbers.

 

[NationalistPKDude132]

No, If you think the Koreans are going to fight by the side of the Japanese against China then that's pure fantasy. They hate them and would rather see them go under.

Yes see the USN struggle against Iran, I can't imagine how much worse it would be for India v Pakistan, which unlike Iran has a credible Navy. India is not able to keep China in 'check' considering it's vast disparity at every level.
Why would China come all out for Iran when there is no strategic relationship? They never have had defense ties of any sorts. Are you confusing them for Russia?
Pakistan doesn't need outright intervention but ships to replace losses, missiles etc, which China can supply in massive numbers.

Yes... The Japanese literally tried to wipe their population out


Infact the korean pm met xi jinping not to long ago i remmeber

 

[Waz]

Yes... The Japanese literally tried to wipe their population out


Infact the korean pm met xi jinping not to long ago i remmeber

100% go ask the average Korean South or North doesn't matter on what they think about the Japanese, and proposed three way alliance against China lol. It's all on paper, they've also got territorial disputes. They have their alliance with the US and that's to keep the North in check, but even then they prefer a merger without Kim and co.

 

[Oscar]

100% go ask the average Korean South or North doesn't matter on what they think about the Japanese, and proposed three way alliance against China lol. It's all on paper, they've also got territorial disputes. They have their alliance with the US and that's to keep the North in check, but even then they prefer a merger without Kim and co.

F-15Ks were actually purchased with Japan in mind especially with SLAM-ER due to resource areas between them.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

We need to see our procurement of surface and subsurface platforms from the perspective of sea denial strategy of PN vs Sea Control strategy of IN.

In case of hostilities, maritime trade (Oil & LNG) of both India and Pakistan transit out of Straits of Hormuz. PN has an advantage here as compared to IN. IN has to move its carrier strike group and long range patrol aircraft to patrol off and near the coast of Oman. Long transit times for LRMP's even though, theoretically, P8 can operate for almost 20 hours with air to air refuelling. That is the reason India has entered into naval docking agreement with Oman.

The Carrier strike group of IN will patrol south east of Oman and that is where our Hangors can play a decisive role specially in the deeper water off of North Arabian coastal shelf in deeper waters. They will get the advantage of deeper waters and that is where a sub is in its own.

I believe, and it is my humble opinion, that neither side will have decisive victory in the sea now, however, PN will be able to execute sea denial without IN controlling the areas around the approaches to straits of Hormuz, effectively.

 

[kmc_chacko]

No, If you think the Koreans are going to fight by the side of the Japanese against China then that's pure fantasy. They hate them and would rather see them go under.

Yes see the USN struggle against Iran, I can't imagine how much worse it would be for India v Pakistan, which unlike Iran has a credible Navy. India is not able to keep China in 'check' considering it's vast disparity at every level.
Why would China come all out for Iran when there is no strategic relationship? They never have had defense ties of any sorts. Are you confusing them for Russia?
Pakistan doesn't need outright intervention but ships to replace losses, missiles etc, which China can supply in massive numbers.

There are no permanent friends or enemies, only permanent interests

 

[Princeps]

But i still think these boats arent going to be used anywhere near our waters. They are HUGE. I see these as attack subs, designed to go out into deeper waters and strike, both indian coasts and also indian vessels further afield. I think this is why the PN has placed such an importance on SWATs. Shallow water ATTACK subs- hence why my thought that perhaps SWATs will look after the ASW work for us

Bit late but you are severely underestimating how deep the Arabian sea is. Beyond the coast the water in our EEZ ranges from -6000 down to -10,000 ft. This is as deep as it gets for submarine warfare. The area within the red outline is coastal beyond that it dips to -6000ft very quickly.