Operation Ghazab Lil Haq (Pakistan - Afghanistan War)

[Goenitz]

1 Pakistani is worth more than the whole of Afghanistan.

That 1 Pakistani is more precious than the policemen who killed a child because his rickshaw was in front of the police car? or other Pakistanis who get killed by CTD, Army, US Marines, etc.

The mentality that we can decimate an entire country will make us physically do that. If Pak follows punitive actions and statements, then perhaps, no one will raise objections now, but until the West feels like it. Such as in the case of Saddam killing Kurds or attacking Iran, etc.

I still don't understand why Pakistan has to fight with one hand tied to its back, constantly having to justify its military operations when the enemy does low blows through BLA and TTP.

I am not questioning attacking TTP, especially the arm depots (killing their capacity matters more). We cannot tie our minds and rationality behind our backs just to keep our hands free.

 

[r3alist]

Afghanistan has long been a quagmire. Power has historically been decentralised, with different regions and groups asserting influence at different times. At some points, areas like Mazar-i-Sharif or Panjshir have aligned, while other regions like Herat or Kandahar have followed their own paths. Kabul has often been a focal point of authority, but not always a decisive one.

Like a pack of wolves (wetsern connotation), Afghans attack an outsider, and later everyone keeps fighting to be the Alpha to control the pack. Like wolves, they need spanking, herding and hierarchy to behave rationally. Unless they grow out of it to become a coherent society.

No one can control Afghanistan, even the Afghans themselves. The man is product of its environment. Afghanistan's geography dictates that it cannot be controlled by a center.
75% of the country is mountainous, and urban centers are far away from each other. Each center has its own ethnicity, group and militia.

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The thing is the world has moved on, and the Taliban are not outsiders to power but actually in power.

There was a time during the soviets where the Afghan way was perfect to combat the soviets, but that was a long long time ago now, warfare has changed and again they have power and therefore much broader considerations, as people with theoretical responsibility

They cannot use the same PlayBook, they have a mandate for some form of statecraft and if they abandon this, that will be a further tragedy for the people.
At any point during the last few weeks was there not an option to just make some form of agreement?

When people try to idealize the Afghan and the Afghan mindset they are actually infantilizing them as beyond civilization and governance.

If the only tool you have in your toolbox is guerilla warfare, you do not represent any form of civilization

 

[NationalistPKDude132]

The thing is the world has moved on, and the Taliban are not outsiders to power but actually in power.

There was a time during the soviets where the Afghan way was perfect to combat the soviets, but that was a long long time ago now, warfare has changed and again they have power and therefore much broader considerations, as people with theoretical responsibility

They cannot use the same PlayBook, they have a mandate for some form of statecraft and if they abandon this, that will be a further tragedy for the people.
At any point during the last few weeks was there not an option to just make some form of agreement?

When people try to idealize the Afghan and the Afghan mindset they are actually infantilizing them as beyond civilization and governance.

If the only tool you have in your toolbox is guerilla warfare, you do not represent any form of civilization

they survived because Pakistan helped these sorry afghans against soviets and americans

 

[T80UD]

not bad idea

thats how ukraine trains its fpv drone crew , on a simulator

Pubg wouldn't really be good for that since it's mainly a third person game.

 

[Distant_Observer]

That 1 Pakistani is more precious than the policemen who killed a child because his rickshaw was in front of the police car? or other Pakistanis who get killed by CTD, Army, US Marines, etc.

The mentality that we can decimate an entire country will make us physically do that. If Pak follows punitive actions and statements, then perhaps, no one will raise objections now, but until the West feels like it. Such as in the case of Saddam killing Kurds or attacking Iran, etc.

I am not questioning attacking TTP, especially the arm depots (killing their capacity matters more). We cannot tie our minds and rationality behind our backs just to keep our hands free.

It's not a country. It's the fetishization of afghan pashtun warlords.

Pakistan had to go through a very painful process of de-linking its population from them.

We can see in the west how some Pakistanis and Muslims still lust for them. Silence when Pakistanis are massacred, uproar when taliban are challenged. It doesn't go unnoticed.

Afghanistan as a nation state was dead in the 70s. It should be officially balkanized so that its people can finally live in peace and are no longer a threat to one of the greatest civilizations in the history of the world Pakistan the Indus valley republic.

 

[krash]

This looks like a foreign-initiated ceasefire and no individual pause from all angles.

If Pakistan really ends it here, it will be the biggest loser. It got scared away by the internet.

Am deeply ashamed of Pakistan today. Mods can give me a warning. I don't care. It needed to be said.

Talibs WOULD NOT HESITATE to strike us on Eid, declaring us as "kaffir" for not bowing to their vile dreams of ethnic supremacy.

Every time a PAF pilot lands to take a leak, guys on PDF:

 

[iron shrapnel]

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[flyingorca]

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[Pakistan Space Agency]

Most important bit here for me is this.

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Unlike last time in October, this time TTP has followed through with Taliban in announcing a ceasefire. This should be seen as an outcome of Op GlH.

Seems like the policy of hitting Taliban in response of TTP attacks is working.

Then there shall be more airstrikes.

If this is the only language the Afghan Taliban understand, then so be it.

 

[Blain2]

The norm has changed. Pakistan will inflict pain on Afghanistan with each attack they sponsor through their TTP allies. What remains to be seen is what we will do in the case of FAH terrorists (BLA) and their activities in Balochistan.

 

[ziaulislam]

I suppose arming a counterproxy group is a legitimate suggestion
However that would have wider consequences, the basic overarching point remains there is no conventional or textbook way to deal with this.

Not really.. western alliance is much More acceptable to the world only reason they arent being armed is Pakistan believe that they are bigger threat then Taliban
This is solely a pakistan decision..we want the Taliban they are our buddies, west and all other neighbors want the Western alliance who have plenty of fighters they just need arms and possibly some air cover during the initial blitz

If they get that tlaiban will fall in 1-2 weeks the north can easily be occupied without much insurgency (there wasnt much insurgency there anyway)

This will worse case scenario keep Taliban occupied

However, some how ISI believe in the delusional thoughts that Taliban are better

North alliance may have alliance with india but they have absolutely no interest in making an already afghan majority as super majority by taking Pakistan pushtoons areas

 

[Blain2]

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Glad that he said that because it was the Pakistani PR machinery that conveyed this narrative around the world in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s during the ISAF occupation because it was in our interest then to see the Russians and Americans leave Afghanistan.

This narrative built pressure on the ISAF/American plans (in fairness, they left for reasons even beyond this one) and led to the outcomes culminating in the ISAF departure.

Now, the narrative is being changed yet again. The reality is closer to the new position. Afghans have allowed EVERY invader to come in, settle and do what they needed to till the point it made no sense any further. At least for the Soviets, Afghanistan was just a means and not the end. The end was access to warm waters through Pakistan.

For the Americans it was neutralizing AQ and they pretty much achieved that and left. That AQ morphed into others is a different debate.

Pakistan's current stance of hitting Afg for any major attack is the right approach. The cost has shifted to the Taliban directly. Alhamdolillah, the scale of attacks has gone down significantly. There is still room for Taliban to have full diplomatic/trade ties with Pakistan if they clamp down on TTP/BLA altogether, but the upside is that Pakistan is no longer relying on their good graces and being proactive with tangible actions.

 

[side-winder]

I wouldn’t say that it was a statement in continuity - I have no idea about current sortie rates but I think during PaF exercises they go higher and that had led to some serious fatigue.

But @side-winder had highlighted this earlier I believe the issue isn’t flying fatigue but missed training sorties because that is where you practice ideas and tactics versus a generally patterned CAP or strike sortie.

Becharay 9 Sqn walay bohat ragray jaa rhay hain aaj kal. Lol

 

[Oscar]

Becharay 9 Sqn walay bohat ragray jaa rhay hain aaj kal. Lol

It’s also the most “reliable” jet for strikes -
Im pretty curious on what ordnance is in use especially with all the JDAM kids purchased

 

[r3alist]

The thing is the world has moved on, and the Taliban are not outsiders to power but actually in power.

There was a time during the soviets where the Afghan way was perfect to combat the soviets, but that was a long long time ago now, warfare has changed and again they have power and therefore much broader considerations, as people with theoretical responsibility

They cannot use the same PlayBook, they have a mandate for some form of statecraft and if they abandon this, that will be a further tragedy for the people.
At any point during the last few weeks was there not an option to just make some form of agreement?

When people try to idealize the Afghan and the Afghan mindset they are actually infantilizing them as beyond civilization and governance.

If the only tool you have in your toolbox is guerilla warfare, you do not represent any form of civilization

Glad that he said that because it was the Pakistani PR machinery that conveyed this narrative around the world in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s during the ISAF occupation because it was in our interest then to see the Russians and Americans leave Afghanistan.

This narrative built pressure on the ISAF/American plans (in fairness, they left for reasons other than this) and led to the outcomes culminating in the ISAF departure.

Now, the narrative is being changed yet again. The reality is closer to the new position. Afghans have allowed EVERY invader to come in, settle and do what they needed to till the point it made no sense any further. At least for the Soviets, Afghanistan was just a means and not the end. The end was access to warm waters through Pakistan.

For the Americans it was neutralizing AQ and they pretty much achieved that and left. That AQ morphed into others is a different debate.

Pakistan's current stance of hitting Afg for any major attack is the right approach. The cost has shifted to the Taliban directly. Alhamdolillah, the scale of attacks has gone down significantly. There is still room for Taliban to have full diplomatic/trade ties with Pakistan if they clamp down on TTP/BLA altogether, but the upside is that Pakistan is no longer relying on their good graces and being proactive with tangible actions.

Fully agree , I outline this in my previous post above