Your first paragraph has contradictory statements that overlay the definition of the modern nation state of India with historical descriptors for a geographical region and the IVC. These terms are not interchangeable and it is disingenuous and misleading to base your discussion on "India's relationships" on a false equivalence of different entities. I am not going to get into further details on that here on this thread but there are other threads where we could pursue some of these misconceptions further.
In fact your post is riddled with obfuscation, confusion and cleverly disguised misdirection.
You are actually comparing the migration and total resettlement of subcontinental muslims in 1947 to the expat labour force of a nation state that retains their nationhood and sends remittances to their origin nation. The comparison is ridiculous. Settled citizens of the Republic of Pakistan do not send remittances or have any affiliation with the Republic of Hindustan, whereas the expat labour you describe do exactly that.
Are British expats also fully "absorbed" in the GCC or did they hop on the first flight back to their HOMELAND once the missiles started raining down?
You're right about Iran not being entirely friendly to Pakistan and I don't think I ever denied that. Nevertheless, at this moment in time, they remain the least malevolent option out of multiple possibilities and would not thwart our efforts against Kabul, as GCC nations have done.
BTW, some nice discussion on haplotypes though so I appreciate that, but best saved for another thread.
Nonsense. I wrote what is modern-day India and South Asia, including iVC which I made clear is in modern-day Pakistan.
I could have written South Asia as a whole - would not change any of my points. I was quite specific about the millennia old trade ties between Arabia and South Asia and used South India (Kerala) as an example - mentioning the first mosques being built in South Asia by Arab traders in this exact area of what is modern-day India. It was to emphasize that Arabs and South Asian (historically speaking) have had no animosity of note but mostly friendly trade ties. That was all.
No, I was talking about people to people. You have a problem with KSA and other GCC states mostly welcoming Indian Muslim expats to Arabia in order to earn a better living while also contribute to our societies. Most of such people, as I told you, have nothing to do with the Hindu extremists, "cow belt India". I was very specific in mentioning to you that most are from Kerala and South India as a whole.
Are you sure? So you are telling me that millions of people from modern-day India that migrated into what later became Pakistan in 1947, have not retained any semblance of contact with their relatives? Are you telling me that Pakistani Punjabis (majority ethnic group in Pakistan by far) who live next to Indian Punjab have no ties - despite most the mutual killing occurring between the same ethnic group (Punjabis - Sikhs vs Muslims vs Hindus)? I find that highly unlikely.
So you are suggesting KSA and the GCC to not pay those largely completely peaceful Indian Muslims any pay? By the same token I take that you believe that one of the main Pakistani income sources (Pakistani remittances from the GCC) should likewise be removed from the equation?
What efforts against Kabul has KSA thwarted? Did you forget that the Taliban is an old friend of Pakistan and that you played the biggest role in their appearance? Without Pakistan the Soviets would have likely remained in Afghanistan and Afghanistan would have remained a communist state with majority Tajik rule - since they were more educated in general.
I did not start that discussion, our Chinese friend did but it was informative and better than some of the troll posts in this thread, I am to be honest.
I still don't understand your point - KSA of all countries - have stood by Pakistan more than any other country not named China. Since the very beginning.
All I am saying, that maybe, just maybe, a new regime in Iran or a reformed current regime would not only be better for KSA/Arabs and Pakistan but Iran itself. Once again, KSA and Pakistan had much better relations with Iran prior to 1979. Even when the Shah's relationship with the US and West began to sour.
Most Iranians had a normal relationship with Islam back then. You never saw or heard the hordes of anti-Muslims and Israel/West worshippers that large segments of the Iranian population is infested with, in particular the Western diaspora.
Nobody asked the stupid Mullah's to openly challenge the foremost military power (US) and their nuclear-armed surrogate (Israel) in the region.
You don't go into the dean of the tiger in the zoo. Why? Because it is stupid and suicidal. It is not "brave". You see the consequence now. Iran is getting destroyed and Israel is barely touched in return. Now the region is at risk of a major conflict and explosion which could potentially lead to a huge financial crisis and states like Pakistan will be one of the biggest losers of all this. I am sure that you are aware of this.
Look, I don't enjoy US/Israeli attacks on Iran but understand that there is a degree of "chickens coming home to roost" from the Arab perspective considering what the Iranian regime has been doing in Syria, Yemen, Iraq and Lebanon for decades and how idiots among their leadership openly bragged about "controlling" (imaginary) 4 Arab capitals.
After the recent capture of Sanaa, the capital of Yemen, by Shiite rebels, an Iranian official has boasted that the Islamic Republic now controls four Arab capitals. The other three capitals are Damascus, Syria; Baghdad, Iraq; and Beirut, Lebanon. The boast, which was reported in an analysis...
www.thetower.org
Once again, our problem is Iranian regime policies in the Arab world not Iranian people (millions of Arabs live in Iran and other related people and next door neighbors that we share more with than the opposite) or Iran itself.
It is NOT in the interests of KSA or the GCC and Iraq (only Arab countries that neighbor iRan directly) for perpetual conflict and instability. It does not boost any kind of growth whether for ordinary people or states. But there are consequences to your actions. Iran has been one of the biggest spoilers in the region since 1979. It was a question of time before the fire would reach Iran one way or another. Not saying that Arabs are saints or blameless, not the case, but there are different scales at work here completely.
The meddling/obsession was mostly a one-way street as I wrote for historical reasons - most of the Iranian Shia clergy (that came to rule Iran after 1979 after ousting the communists - main opposition force in Iran against the Shah) are fairly recent Arab Shia Muslim migrants (read up on the forced Safavid conversion of Iran from Sunni to Shia Islam and the leading role the Shia Arab Ulema played) - all those Black Turbans as an example - and all of those clerical families have deep family ties to many parts of the Shia Arab world. To this very day. Hence the strong support for them among certain circles. Israel/US was the perfect excuse to use/hide behind in order to expand their revolution and influence in the Arab world. Still is to this day. The Iranian regime did not lift a finger against Israel until Israel attacked Iran directly. This reality is somehow also shamelessly used as spin for some imaginary Iranian fight for Palestine. Iran used to fund some Palestinian groups in order to gain influence in Southern Levant - not to free them from Zionist occupation - militias are never going to do that job to begin with - proven since 1948. In fact this once again gives Israel the cover to hide behind "terrorism", "foreign proxies" etc. in order to continue their slaughter and terrorism. To dehumanize the opponent. Same modus operandi in Lebanon. Now if the imposed sectarian and failed Lebanese political system - largely contributed to by Hezbollah itself, was not in existence, Israel would not be able to hide under those labels. They would have faced a regular military composed of Sunnis, Shias, Christians and Druze alike. The international community and Israeli propaganda would be far less successful in spinning this as a war against "radical Islam", "Iranian proxies", "terrorist militias", but unfortunately a large segment of Muslims and Arabs are too stupid to realize that old tactics are not working and only empowering Israel further, while killing more and more innocent people without much if any consequences as we have all witnessed.
None of the discourse on this thread reflects the topic. It has been hijacked by serial cut and paste bot with a knack of creating an echo chamber where no real conversation canbe had...
Someone who's out their to defend the prestige of the Saudi crown... and call every accusation a lie. The pristine Saudi Arabia with rivers of milk and honey... and oil underneath...
"where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average" Garrison Keillor's Lake Wobegone!
Do check out Lake Wobegone effect!
Oh, the Iranian regime bootlicker bot is back. How convenient.
Almost all posts are related to the topic in one way or another. I raised numerous correct points that nobody could argue against purely due to them being in convergence with the ground reality.
Nobody has claimed that KSA is perfect - once again your own imagination. In this very post I write that Arab leadership committed mistakes as well but that there are a difference in terms of the level of those mistakes compared to what the Iranian regime have done since 1979. I stand by that and this is something that most Arabs do as well in particular those Arabs directly effected by Iranian regime policies in places like Yemen, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon. Go argue with millions of them and try to tell them what they have experienced first hand in your zeal to defend your beloved Iranian regime.
Speaking about mistakes - I never have seen you label a single criticism of the Iranian regime and their policies. The pot calling the kettle black.
en.wikipedia.org
