Pakistan Navy | News & Discussions

[Ibbi32]

A Necessity how? A type 52D would cost as much 3 SWATS probably more and those coastal submarines can keep an entire IN battle group at bay, a single destroyer isn't.

Also a flashy capital ship is the one thing the Indians are going to target the most they will make sure to throw everything they have at it and it's certainly way easier to target a destroyer then a modern submarine.

Id still argue it is necessary in the fleet air defence role to protect the rest of the fleet

 

[PakistaniDefender]

A Necessity how? A type 52D would cost as much 3 SWATS probably more and those coastal submarines can keep an entire IN battle group at bay, a single destroyer isn't.

Also a flashy capital ship is the one thing the Indians are going to target the most they will make sure to throw everything they have at it and it's certainly way easier to target a destroyer then a modern submarine.

Those destroyers serve as air defense for the fleet as well for the Important locations like port or a base

 

[side-winder]

Apart from articles by quawa and other random pages , i haven't seen any concrete proof of PN buying the Land battery of the CAMM or IRIS-T , its an expensive and one of the top of the line systems . Tho the news about it being on our future combatants hold value.
Lets see kya hota @Ak01 , I am more excited about the AD systems @side-winder hinted about , looking out for the parade.

Don't get over excited. Lol
Few new procurements - hope the deliveries don't get delayed.

 

[Toxic]

Id still argue it is necessary in the fleet air defence role to protect the rest of the fleet

Those destroyers serve as air defense for the fleet as well for the Important locations like port or a base

Yeah but we simply don't have the money for that, it's the reason PN hasn't gone for more VLS cells on its current ships, I doubt the PN envisions the fleet going deep into the Indian Ocean where they will be out of range of shore based defences.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

A Necessity how? A type 52D would cost as much 3 SWATS probably more and those coastal submarines can keep an entire IN battle group at bay, a single destroyer isn't.

Also a flashy capital ship is the one thing the Indians are going to target the most they will make sure to throw everything they have at it and it's certainly way easier to target a destroyer then a modern submarine.

In the early 2030s, a 8000 tons Type 052DM could be offered 800 million per ship for Pakistan, and 600 million per boat for the 4000 tons Type 041.

So 4 X Type 052DM to be first built by China, and another 4 to be built by Pakistan itself.

And 6 X Type 041 to be first built by China, and another 6 to be built by Pakistan.

So 8 X Type 052DM and 12 X Type 041 should be a good countermeasure against the Indian Navy in the 2030s.

And the pre-condition is that Pakistan also needs a more robust economy by that time.

 

[Ibbi32]

Yeah but we simply don't have the money for that, it's the reason PN hasn't gone for more VLS cells on its current ships, I doubt the PN envisions the fleet going deep into the Indian Ocean where they will be out of range of shore based defences.

Bro it doesnt need to be in range of shore based defences. In can very reasonably put 100-150 brahmos CSG or SAG to sea and if they close within like 500km of PN they are cooked. Yes we have submarines and yes paf is there to respond in kind but the indians can with some very limited force projection box PN into harbor when we can only launch something like 30-40 weapons at that distance. In any surface engagement where more than 1/3 of IN is present PN surface force simply cannot function without incurring risk of heavy losses.

 

[Ibbi32]

In the early 2030s, a 8000 tons Type 052DM could be offered 800 million per ship for Pakistan, and 600 million per boat for the 4000 tons Type 041.

So 4 X Type 052DM to be first built by China, and another 4 to be built by Pakistan itself.

And 6 X Type 041 to be first built by China, and another 6 to be built by Pakistan.

So 8 X Type 052DM and 12 X Type 041 should be a good countermeasure against the Indian Navy in the 2030s.

And the pre-condition is that Pakistan also needs a more robust economy by that time.

Pakistan does not need 8 destroyers. We only need 2-3 for defensive operations. Our primary method of offensive naval operations is submarines and land based air power to keep IN away from coast. PN surface fleet is a defensive oriented force but it still needs some air defence to perform its mission

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Pakistan does not need 8 destroyers. We only need 2-3 for defensive operations. Our primary method of offensive naval operations is submarines and land based air power to keep IN away from coast. PN surface fleet is a defensive oriented force but it still needs some air defence to perform its mission

The 160 km ranged HQ-16FE can be quad-packed into the 0.85 meter VSL cell of the Type 052D.

And your maritime air defence system will become very robust and also serve as a very effective umbrella to protect your strategic submarine asset.

 

[Toxic]

Bro it doesnt need to be in range of shore based defences. In can very reasonably put 100-150 brahmos CSG or SAG to sea and if they close within like 500km of PN they are cooked. Yes we have submarines and yes paf is there to respond in kind but the indians can with some very limited force projection box PN into harbor when we can only launch something like 30-40 weapons at that distance. In any surface engagement where more than 1/3 of IN is present PN surface force simply cannot function without incurring risk of heavy losses.

The whole point of subs is that they won't ever get close enough to fire their missiles, and frankly if they fire 100-150 brahmos you are cooked anyway whether you have the Type 52D or not, PN doesn't intend to engage in surface action.

Also the whole destroyer thing is part of the whole defensive doctrine we should avoid

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The whole point of subs is that they won't ever get close enough to fire their missiles, and frankly if they fire 100-150 brahmos you are cooked anyway whether you have the Type 52D or not, PN doesn't intend to engage in surface action.

Also the whole destroyer thing is part of the whole defensive doctrine we should avoid

The Type 052D can fire the YJ-20 which would likely sink most Indian Surface ships before they can put your ships into their crosshair.

Also, your submarines could also be equipped with the YJ-19.

 

[Toxic]

The Type 052D can fire the YJ-20 which would likely sink most Indian Surface ships before they can put your ships into their crosshair.

Also, your submarines could also be equipped with the YJ-19.

AFAIK only Type 055s have YJ-20s also they are not for export.

 

[bravo_1]

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[ChineseTiger1986]

AFAIK only Type 055s have YJ-20s also they are not for export.

The Type 052D basically carries the same type of VLS as the Type 055, just fewer.

To counter against the rising threat from India, China can offer the YJ-20 coupled with the Type 052DM, and the YJ-19 coupled with the Type 041, and potentially tailored customization for the current Hangor class.

In the 64 VLS cells of a Type 052D, it can carry 128 HQ-16FE air defence missiles with 160 km of range, 24 YJ-20 hypersonic missiles with up to 1500-2000 km of range, and 8 Yu-8 anti-submarine missiles.

 

[Ibbi32]

The whole point of subs is that they won't ever get close enough to fire their missiles.

You think babus will make sure of that? They will always mull about escalation and by the time PAF and hangors get permission to beat the shit out of them there wont be a PN left or maybe masroor AB will be heavily damaged etc. Also how exactly are we supposed to keep a credible long ranged anti ship detterent with our current weapons? Our current sub fleet is small and has no AShMs. Even with hangors added mission set still is pretty big between ASW, shadowing indian fleets and nuclear detterence. At the very least if they had the foresigt to put some vls in we could have more standoff options or make same boats do multiple missions

 

[Toxic]

You think babus will make sure of that? They will always mull about escalation and by the time PAF and hangors get permission to beat the shit out of them there wont be a PN left or maybe masroor AB will be heavily damaged etc. Also how exactly are we supposed to keep a credible long ranged anti ship detterent with our current weapons? Our current sub fleet is small and has no AShMs. Even with hangors added mission set still is pretty big between ASW, shadowing indian fleets and nuclear detterence. At the very least if they had the foresigt to put some vls in we could have more standoff options or make same boats do multiple missions

Well that's the thing if it comes down to what babus do then it doesn't matter what kind of assets you have.

Also ASW is very difficult even against just a single submarine now imagine you have half a dozen more subs to look out for all trying to hunt you down