Makkah Joint Defense Agreement: Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, news & updates

[r3alist]

OFF TOPIC:

The indian media can't stop talking about the Pakistan, Turkiye and Saudi Arabian defence pact:

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indians are going crazy n social media. They are really showing their anti-Pakistani and Islamaphobic racism. They are even being racist towards Saudi Arabians and Turks.

Add china to the list.


They would all move to Turkey Saudi or China

 

[RocketLaw]

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[r3alist]

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[Pakistanithinktank]

The Makkah Joint Defense (Pact) Agreement does give Pakistan meaningful short‑term and long‑term benefits, but it also carries strategic risks. It is not officially framed as anti‑Iran, yet multiple authoritative sources indicate that it was planned in DC, and to counter Iran’s regional influence is a major underlying driver. Israel and the U.S. are not direct beneficiaries at this time but time will tell who will actually benefit from it. USA will eventually relocate most of its forces to far east to contain China and this is done prevent a vacuum.

 

[lightning f57]

This is BS

Yet can’t send bread and water to Gaza

Bro that is the case (military sense), but one has to start from somewhere. Lets hope this is the 2nd step in a bigger change to come in the future.

 

[r3alist]

The Makkah Joint Defense (Pact) Agreement does give Pakistan meaningful short‑term and long‑term benefits, but it also carries strategic risks. It is not officially framed as anti‑Iran, yet multiple authoritative sources indicate that it was planned in DC, and to counter Iran’s regional influence is a major underlying driver. Israel and the U.S. are not direct beneficiaries at this time but time will tell who will actually benefit from it. USA will eventually relocate most of its forces to far east to contain China and this is done prevent a vacuum.

Taking strategic risks is what Pakistan has to do, because the cost is greater not taking any


Why should the Iranians expect other countries to remain perpetually neutral and supportive for their revolutionary ambitions, at their own cost, sounds sociopathic

This move simply rearranges the chess board and puts aspiring hegemons into "check", signalling and diplomacy

Next move is theirs.

 

[r3alist]

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[r3alist]

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Key view here


https://x.com/i/status/2085734663361020060

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The Iranians chose their concept of heroic martyrdom, potentially chose it on behalf of hisb.... They discarded deterrence, this is what Pak Turkey and Saudi are doing, kill the ideas of war at the earliest.

The geo-strategic success lies in balancing, leveraging, hedging etc. to have a credible deterrence. Once some folks want to test their luck by being over-confident even the super powers get bogged down deep inside a quagmire. And, it's not that easy to get out....

It's all about analyzing selves and enemies a million times in a cold-blooded manner before firing a single shot....

 

[Watandar]

Okay, reluctantly, I am going to have to explain this to you like a kindergarten teacher.

Pakistan established the Kahuta enrichment programme in 1976. By the time the reported Israeli Indian strike plans were being discussed around 1983 and 1984, the enrichement programme had already existed for eight years.. Pakistan had rapidly approached the nuclear threshold. The U.S. intelligence was already assessing during this period that Pakistan was moving toward the ability to produce a nuclear explosive device in weeks. Thats exacltly what is meant by "Nuclear Threshold" and if you think that didnt figure in Israeli calculas than your just plain dumb.

Enrichment is one thing, assembling a crude explosive device another, an actual warhead a separate undertaking and then the delivery systems for that nuke warhead yet another. Pakistan did not have any working nuclear device nor delivery system in 1984. The Israeli objective was to prevent further progress in the Pakistani program and were disallowed by India because of fears of conventional conflict, not nuclear. There was no nuke device nor ability for Pakistan to respond to Israel or India in 1984 or 1985 or 1986.

You misunderstand the term nuclear threshold state.

Pakistan had also begun receiving its first Peace Gate F 16s in 1983. Those aircraft subsequently became associated with Pakistan’s nuclear delivery mission, alongside the Mirage III and Mirage V. So the idea that Israel and India were looking at some completely defenceless, strategically irrelevant Pakistan is nonsense. The possibility of retaliation and uncontrolled escalation was already part of the calculation.

Pakistani F16's are expressively prohibited by arms agreements with the US from offensive actions against India, including nuke delivery. There are US personnel stationed on PAF bases to maintain those aircraft, who regularly report to Embassy personnel on Pakistani compliance with those agreements. Not to mention you have to build a special nuke in the first place to even attach it a small fighter jets. Sorry but this talk of F16's being used for nuke delivery is fiction.

I have mentioned before that India refused the Kahuta strike because it feared a conventional war breaking out. So stop twisting my words.

My comments about mountains were made specifically in response to your claim that Israel could somehow decapitate Pakistan’s strategic capability as easily as it attacked Iran.I am not going to start discussing sensitive locations on an internet forum simply because you demand evidence that obviously would not be public in the first place.

You don't need to reveal this highly classified information on Pakistani underground facilities, which you special person somehow have access to. But frankly I think you are blowing hot air.

And this mythology surrounding an almost supernatural Israeli Air Force vs TuAF, RSAF and PAF.. needs some perspective. Yes Israel possesses advantages in areas such as its F 35Is. But outside its stealth fleet, a large part of the IAF still consists of older F 15 and F 16 derivatives. Many of these aircraft lack AESA radars, while several of the older F 16 Netz and even some Barak variants are dated by modern standards.

Türkiye, meanwhile, operates one of the largest F 16 fleets in the world (larger than israels) , is moving toward acquiring F 35s again, is augmenting its force with Eurofighters and is simultaneously developing KAAN. The 4 turkish E-7 AWACS are much larger and more modern than the Israeli G550s of which israel only has 2.

Saudi Arabia already fields a highly capable combat fleet based around the F 15SA and F 15S, with the F 15SA in particular being one of the most advanced Eagle variants in service, alongside 72 Eurofighter Typhoons.

Who said supernatural ? I was merely pointing out the qualitative difference between the israeli air force and the three amigos in this pact. Let me give you a reality check, the Israeli air force is 60 plus F15's, 170 plus F16's and around 50 F35's. With Israeli allied to India and the West, you have to take their capabilities into account as well.

Pakistan operates J 10Cs, JF 17 Block IIIs, F 16s and a substantial AEW&C fleet while pursuing next generation fighter options, including the J 35. Personally, I find the J 35 a much cleaner and more slender design than the rather bulky F 35, known as “Fat Amy” in U.S. defence circles.

J35 may indeed be very nice but is not battle-proven like the F35. PAF has managed to put together a decent fleet with its modest resources that is barely enough to counter the Indian Air Force, it's not enough to counter Indian and Israeli air force as well.

You keep mentioning Israeli ALBMs like LORA as if they are some sort of magic bullet. Is that because of the Qatar attack? Do you realize it missed the building and Israel still failed to kill the Hamas negotiators it was targeting?

The LORA hit its target. The reason Hamas people were not killed was because they left their phones in a different building. This is the capability Israel has, to home in missiles based on phone signals, using Western infrastructure if needed. Does Pakistan or Saudi or Turkey have this kind of capability ? No

Technically, something like LORA is also a big, juicy target for systems such as Pakistan’s HQ 9, Saudi Patriot batteries or Türkiye’s SİPER air defence network. Heck, even Israeli SPICE 2000 and SOM type precision weapons have failed to achieve their intended effects before, including during the 2019 Balakot strike when India used Mirage 2000s against Pakistan. You can go through a plethora of videos of failed Israeli CMs in Iran.

Remains to be seen who can intercept the LORA or other Israeli missiles. The HQ9 or Patriot or whatever have struggled to intercept Iranian missiles, so there are legitimate question marks on how they would perform against Israelis. The Patriot battery in Qatar didn't do anything against the LORA.......

The Spice/SOM was used by Indians in Balakot with their usual incompetence. They also used the Rafale stupidly and that is what has saved Pakistan's bacon in 2019 and 2025.

And if we are going to compare stand off strike inventories, Saudi Arabia literally possesses around 450 Storm Shadows and has ordered 650 SLAM ERs. Pakistan possesses hundreds of Taimoor and Ra’ad I and II cruise missiles, while Türkiye has its own extensive inventory of air launched cruise missiles.

Taimoor and Raad are unproven in actual battle. Same story with the Turkish stuff. Yes the Saudis have Storm Shadows and have used them in Yemen with limited effect.

So no, Israeli ALBMs are not some magical, unstoppable weapon that suddenly makes everyone else’s offensive and defensive capabilities irrelevant.

Israel has some qualitative advantages, but pretending that every aircraft in its inventory is somehow generations ahead of everything fielded by Türkiye, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan is simply kool aid rather than serious force comparison.

Israeli weapons are more advanced than what Pakistan, Turkey and Saudi Arabia are fielding, in every category. It is Israeli doctrine to have this qualitative edge over all other nations in the Mideast and South Asia. You are over-estimating yourself and under-estimate the Israelis similar to how the Arabs looked at it in the past.

And against Pakistan there is one additional variable that simply did not exist against Iran: an established nuclear arsenal. You can call nuclear deterrence “nonsense” as many times as you like. Israeli planners would not have that luxury. You keep denying that , but that doesnt change the equation

Pakistani nukes and delivery systems are NOT going outside of the country. They are not an issue for Israeli planners as the US will simply not allow Pakistan to make such a reckless move, regardless of this pact. Neither will China.

This is most fanciful thinking of this entire pact, that it brings a nuclear umbrella to the Mideast. It does not.

Sindoor did not “break” nuclear deterrence. India carried out limited strikes, Pakistan retaliated conventionally, both sides carefully controlled escalation, and the conflict stopped well short of existential war. That is deterrence operating, not disappearing.

Sindoor was an Indian aggression against mainland Pakistan, something that Pakistani planners had thought impossible because of the nuclear deterrent. That India crossed that redline is what shocked the Pakistani establishment.

I do not regard Indian air attacks, missile salvos, drone attacks and artillery bombardment as "limited strikes".

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

My beard doesn't know what's inside my head - Fatih Sultan Mehmet Khan

Turkey, Saudi arabia and Pakistan sign a defence pact in Mecca​

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[hyperman]

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[PAKISTANFOREVER]

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What the indian in the last post doesn't realize is that the pact is got NOTHING to do with Iran. It's a program to develop the Pakistani, Turkish and Saudi militaries so that they can become major global military powers so that NO RACIST GENOCIDAL COLONIALIST MANIACS can attack or harm our peoples. IF you have no intention of attacking Pakistan, Turkiye and Saudi Arabia then this defence pact has got NOTHING to do with you. NO NEED to worry about it.

 

[Watandar]

The Makkah Joint Defense (Pact) Agreement does give Pakistan meaningful short‑term and long‑term benefits, but it also carries strategic risks. It is not officially framed as anti‑Iran, yet multiple authoritative sources indicate that it was planned in DC, and to counter Iran’s regional influence is a major underlying driver. Israel and the U.S. are not direct beneficiaries at this time but time will tell who will actually benefit from it. USA will eventually relocate most of its forces to far east to contain China and this is done prevent a vacuum.

Thanks for succint explanation. Yes as the US vacates its Gulf footprint and retrenches closer to Israel, it still needs someone to tackle Iran and its allies. This aligns with what Saudis want too hence this pact. It has nothing to do with tackling Israel.

 

[Master Chief]

OFF TOPIC:

The indian media can't stop talking about the Pakistan, Turkiye and Saudi Arabian defence pact:

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indians are going crazy n social media. They are really showing their anti-Pakistani and Islamaphobic racism. They are even being racist towards Saudi Arabians and Turks.

"Ijjlamic nato saar!"

Honestly they have far too many people employed in this circus media of theirs.