Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[mangekyo]

The US needed this pause to rearm and regroup and the Chinese forced us to give it to them.

How does China force us to do anything? Russia also has veto if that’s what you mean they’re pressuring us with?

 

[Tabmachine]

According to reports, the United States has presented Iran with a demand for unconditional surrender, including the complete abandonment of uranium enrichment, the unconditional opening of the Strait of Hormuz, and even the refusal to return frozen assets. Araghchi and his men had not foreseen this and were likely dreaming of equal negotiations; Iran has once again been deceived.

The iranians made it clear beforehand they had no trust in the other side. Maybe they had "a fools hope" as Gandalf would say.

Well Mordor is now sending the world towards "eternal darkness" as the Zionists would say.

 

[ShapurII]

How does China force us to do anything? Russia also has veto if that’s what you mean they’re pressuring us with?

China buys most of our oil and has the veto power in the UNSC. Even Trump said it publicly that he asked the Chinese to "convince" Iranians to accept the ceasefire.

The Russians didn't use their veto power last time. They wouldn't have used it this time either, had China told them not to do it.

Do you think it was a coincidence that voting on Bahrain's UNSC proposal was delayed twice until the day that Iran accepted the ceasefire?

 

[brazensword]

Araghchi and his men had not foreseen this and were likely dreaming of equal negotiations; Iran has once again been deceived.

They weren't. Iran need the time to reposition missile assets in the meanwhile. They needed the breather to reopen lost tunnels.

 

[mangekyo]

China buys most of our oil and has the veto power in the UNSC. Even Trump said it publicly that he asked the Chinese to "convince" Iranians to accept the ceasefire.

The Russians didn't use their veto power last time. They wouldn't have used it this time either, had China told them not to do it.

Do you think it was a coincidence that voting on Bahrain's UNSC proposal was delayed twice until the day that Iran accepted the ceasefire?

But we didn’t accept the American demands, so where does that fit in your theory?

 

[brazensword]

I agree it is for deterrence. I guess the US thinks Iran is not irrational actor and will use a nuke the moment it gets one.

To that I say I don't think Iran wants to commit national suicide.

I also think Saudi Arabia and other Middle East nations will then feel the need to go nuclear as well.

Israel is a rational actor? It needs to get punched in the face repeatedly because it does not understand any other way.

Middle East going nuclear, all of them will be the best outcome. Tiny Israel won't be able to dictate terms or bomb anyone just because.

 

[ShapurII]

But we didn’t accept the American demands, so where does that fit in your theory?

Is this a serious question? Do you seriously think the US cared about the negotiations, at all?

It was all a ploy for the US forces to rearm and regroup while keeping the world economy afloat for more war.

 

[PakAl]

Assad had two russian airbases and a naval port in Syria. What difference did it make?

A military base can be evacuated. The only guarantee worth anything is a mutual defense clause.

It made a big difference, his government lasted 8 + years instead of a few months but when the people, mutiny, and all neighbours ganged up against Assad his government, economy and support collapsed. Yes i agree defense agreement is needed but the western world will oppose this with all means.

 

[ShapurII]

It made a big difference, his government lasted 8 + years instead of a few months but when the people, mutiny, and all neighbours ganged up against Assad his government, economy and support collapsed. Yes i agree defense agreement is needed but the western world will oppose this with all means.

Iran kept Assad in power, not Russia.

 

[mangekyo]

Is this a serious question? Do you seriously think the US cared about the negotiations, at all?

It was all a ploy for the US forces to rearm and regroup while keeping the world economy afloat for more war.

It doesn’t matter what the US wants. You’re saying China forced Iran to accept a ceasefire and negotiate with the Americans. If China has that power over Iran, they would have forced us to accept any American demands.

 

[mangekyo]

It made a big difference, his government lasted 8 + years instead of a few months but when the people, mutiny, and all neighbours ganged up against Assad his government, economy and support collapsed. Yes i agree defense agreement is needed but the western world will oppose this with all means.

No. Assad fell after he asked the Iranians to leave so he could return to the arab league.

 

[ShapurII]

It doesn’t matter what the US wants. You’re saying China forced Iran to accept a ceasefire and negotiate with the Americans. If China has that power over Iran, they would have forced us to accept any American demands.

The Chinese wanted the ceasefire, not the surrender. What part of it is hard for you to understand? The Chinese want us to keep the US busy with minimal damage to their economic and global interests.

Also, Trump is already talking about imposing a maritime siege on Iran. Just like what they did to Venezuela and Cuba. So, nothing will enter Iran or leave Iran. No oil exports, no food and pharmaceutical imports, nothing.

 

[mangekyo]

The Chinese wanted the ceasefire, not the surrender. What part of it is hard for you to understand?

Also, Trump is already talking about imposing a maritime siege on Iran. Just like what they did to Venezuela and Cuba. So, nothing will enter Iran or leave Iran. No oil exports, no food and pharmaceutical imports, nothing.

So China forced us to accept a ceasefire, but couldn’t force us to accept the conditions for the ceasefire? What are you saying? How are they forcing us then

 

[Immortals]

Looks like Israeli media was right from the start. Talks were doomed to fail. Explains why Bibi never stopped attacking Lebanon, he saw straight thru this ruse by Trump.

It’s becoming more likely that all 3 parties (Pakistan, Iran, and U.S.) did this ceasefire and peace summit for different reasons

• Iran to open its missile bases and move assets around
• US to give Trump an off ramp from the wiping out civilization tweet
• Pakistan to fulfill MBS’s request for troops and planes per defense treaty

Now the war will resume. In the meantime, the biggest losers are Argachi and Qalibaf who thought they could once again convince the Americans to treat them as equals

 

[PakAl]

The Chinese wanted the ceasefire, not the surrender. What part of it is hard for you to understand? The Chinese want us to keep the US busy with minimal damage to their economic and global interests.

Also, Trump is already talking about imposing a maritime siege on Iran. Just like what they did to Venezuela and Cuba. So, nothing will enter Iran or leave Iran. No oil exports, no food and pharmaceutical imports, nothing.

Pakistan China pushed for the ceasefire and talks, its a good move to end the war, I guess it didnt work as we expected but what else can they do.