Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[KingQamaR]

Anyone who has been monitoring the political developments in our region for over a month would not have expected these negotiations to result in a peace agreement, especially one that includes Lebanon. You should know better. You're a smart guy.

This entire topic, particularly our friends from Pakistan,went overboard with such enthusiasm that any form of criticism or pessimism was perceived as an act of betrayal. Being realistic should nit be seen as taking a side.

Iran must fight in this conflict until it reaches a point of no return. There are no conditions or exceptions here. It is a matter of fighting to survive or facing extinction.

I also believe that any lasting peace agreement in future will include the Arab states and Turkey. So, any serious negotiation will see other major players at the table.

Who would have credibility in your opinion ? Turkey? It has to be a country that is willing , Pakistan had enough cred to get the shaky “ceasefire “.

 

[Persian Gulf]

Not a negative impact, a crippling impact. They will enter or leave Iran with a significant drop in volume. Last time the British tried a similar thing on Iran during the period of oil nationalization, it bankrupted our economy. I expect you to know our history better than foreigners at least.

We already survived < 1m bpd oil exports before and worse things, up until now Iran is still exporting oil. My point is that you cannot claim nothing will leave or enter Iran just because of a naval blockade. That is simply not true.

 

[r3alist]

never said Turkey and Pakistan were belligerents. I just pointed out the fact that they have no weight on global affairs like the US and China, or even Russia, the UK or France. Not even as much as tiny Israel that controls the Western world.

It is not about being a global power, it is about the current equations for Iran.
Right now Turkey in particular has been a non-beligerant, obviously Pakistan as well, this then allows you to focus on the gulf Nations, are you taking this for granted as a constant?
As things are right now

accused China of betraying us

I'm pretty sure you also accused Pakistan of the same, but I also do not see how you can blame China for betrayal, what was the agreement and expectations? I do not know

If you had an expectation for China to become involved then this is a miscalculation, the Chinese are if anything consistent ultimately they have no particular compulsion for Iran without the appropriate mutual infrastructure
.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

In fact, neither the United States nor Iran has the sincerity to hold peace talks, and neither of them has the popular support for peace talks domestically.

The reason why they went to Pakistan is just to strive to perform in front of people all over the world, and to make their opponents bear the responsibility of destroying peace and the world economy. So Trump said negotiations were based on Iran's 10 conditions, while the Iranian government said the United States asked them to surrender unconditionally.

Isn't this the result we guessed from the beginning?

The war is not popular in the US... however, negotiations were sold as an off ramp. They have been used as a change of strategy and reorient posture. There are real weaknesses and this war exposed US ability to impose will by force.

A grinding war is simply not possible for the US to ship tens of thousands of men to their deaths in the middle east for a failed objective of a lame duck president who'll leave a quagmire for the incoming. Something which zion will seek outside of their inability to directly bring in another AIPAC lackey. However, the negotiations or the pause was not in Iranian favor... as once they've eaten the blows... their war effort and doctrine is set for a long grinding war where they maintain their asymmetric edge over the opponent. The US is running critically low on precision munitions and interceptors... with a seeming infinite supply of dumb bombs...
The thing is Orange got his break... Now What?
He still doesn't have a strategy, lost twice and now bumbling as a genocidal maniac.

 

[ShapurII]

We already survived < 1m bpd oil exports before and worse things, up until now Iran is still exporting oil. My point is that you cannot claim nothing will leave or enter Iran just because of a naval blockade. That is simply not true.

Why did we sign the JCPOA then? Why did we negotiate with the Trump administration twice? Didn't Khamenei say that we would never negotiate with Trump after he killed Gen. Soleimani?

If 700K bpd was bad, try 100K bpd next. And how do you want to do that by the way? Israel was hitting our railway system and roads and will continue to do the same when the war resumes. Textbook siege tactics.

Even if they don't, do you want to send our oil to China through Afghanistan? Does Afghanistan even have the infrastructural capacity for that?

 

[Ali_Baba]

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Question for our Iranian friends here. is the Gulf "deep enough" for oil ships to pass through the Straits in Omani waters? Or, can they "only" pass Iranian waters ( ignore everything about mines, and ceasefire for now ). Is the only route "out", via Iran ?

 

[Flotilla]

Iran got played a 3rd time

These two weeks were nothing more than time for Israel to move its interceptors around and for US to bring in more air defenses, equipment and troops into the region. Israel was running lone and in single digits for interceptors. The US and Israel likely have to steal NATO stocks and Asia stocks to replenish for now.

Vance came and likely delivered the same crappy deal as before: No enrichment, No HEU, limit missiles, and drop support for Hezbollah in exchange for some sanctions relief.

Qalibaf and Argachi spent alot of political capital to make themselves look like fool.

Well, you know Irán are also replenishing the stockpiles. Flights from China and probably building more launchers, and importing raw materials for building more drones and MANPADs.

Everybody knows how US works, and Iranians are not idiots.

I told you once. Irán cannot leave the room first.

 

[ShapurII]

It is not about being a global power, it is about the current equations for Iran.
Right now Turkey in particular has been a non-beligerant, obviously Pakistan as well, this then allows you to focus on the gulf Nations, are you taking this for granted as a constant?
As things are right now

Yes, I am taking this as granted. What can Turkey and Pakistan add to the equation that the US and Israel cannot on their own? So, unless Turkey and Pakistan want to have a similar fate like the GCC states, then they don't gain anything by becoming belligerent.

I'm pretty sure you also accused Pakistan of the same, but I also do not see how you can blame China for betrayal, what was the agreement and expectations? I do not know

Find it and show it to me. China preferred a ceasefire for economic reasons and it got one by using their levers on us. China buys 80% of our oil and they're a permanent member of the UN Security Council.

If you had an expectation for China to become involved then this is a miscalculation, the Chinese are if anything consistent ultimately they have no particular compulsion for Iran without the appropriate mutual infrastructure

Nobody had such expectations. Do not twist my words.

 

[mangekyo]

The war is not popular in the US... however, negotiations were sold as an off ramp. They have been used as a change of strategy and reorient posture. There are real weaknesses and this war exposed US ability to impose will by force.

A grinding war is simply not possible for the US to ship tens of thousands of men to their deaths in the middle east for a failed objective of a lame duck president who'll leave a quagmire for the incoming. Something which zion seek outside of their inability directly bring in another AIPAC lackey. However, the negotiations or the pause was not in Iranian favor... as once they've eaten the blows... their war effort and doctrine is set for a long grinding war where they maintain their asymmetric edge over the opponent. The US is running critically low on precision munitions and interceptors... with a seeming infinite supply of dumb bombs...
The thing is Orange got his break... Now What?
He still doesn't have a strategy, lost twice and now bumbling as a genocidal maniac.

Trump had already declared victory, claimed Iran’s millitary is destroyed, the navy is destroyed, missile program is destroyed and nuclear program is destroyed. He must now explain to the Americans why he rejected ceasefire after achieving such a victory only because a foreign power told him to. He must explain to allies why he is willing to sacrifice their economy for Israel.

 

[KingQamaR]

"Netanyahu's call to Vance" ??? Did this really take place? Wow !!!

Surprise, surprise. The boss of America and EU didn’t allow peace.

 

[ShapurII]

Question for our Iranian friends here. is the Gulf "deep enough" for oil ships to pass through the Straits in Omani waters? Or, can they "only" pass Iranian waters ( ignore everything about mines, and ceasefire for now ). Is the only route "out", via Iran ?

Fortunately, the other side of the Persian Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz are not deep enough for heavy tankers. Though, I suppose light cargo ships should be able to use other routes.

 

[Optical216]

Trump had already declared victory, claimed Iran’s millitary is destroyed, the navy is destroyed, missile program is destroyed and nuclear program is destroyed. He must now explain to the Americans why he rejected ceasefire after achieving such a victory only because a foreign power told him to. He must explain to allies why he is willing to sacrifice their economy for Israel.

Now iran should give the ultimate lesson to trump draw this war out give as much damage to US as possible and then make trump look like the ultimate fool for trusting israel.

 

[ShapurII]

Trump had already declared victory, claimed Iran’s millitary is destroyed, the navy is destroyed, missile program is destroyed and nuclear program is destroyed. He must now explain to the Americans why he rejected ceasefire after achieving such a victory only because a foreign power told him to. He must explain to allies why he is willing to sacrifice their economy for Israel.

You talk as if Trump gave two shits about any of that.
As long as Trump is the POTUS, he doesn't give a shit about what others think.
He is the same guy that made fun of a disabled reporter in front of cameras. Do you think he cares about what people think of him?

Also, even if Trump is miraculously "dethroned" and impeached, JD Vance will replace him. And I think our recent experience with him doesn't suggest that he's any better.

 

[Optical216]

You talk as if Trump gave two shits about any of that.
As long as Trump is the POTUS, he doesn't give a shit about what others think.
He is the same guy that made fun of a disabled reporter in front of cameras. Do you think he cares about what people think of him?

Also, even if Trump is miraculously "dethroned" and impeached, JD Vance will replace him. And I think our recent experience with him doesn't suggest that he's any better.

Israel and Joos are too baked into the corrupt US system.

 

[KingQamaR]

Yes, I am taking this as granted. What can Turkey and Pakistan add to the equation that the US and Israel cannot on their own? So, unless Turkey and Pakistan want to have a similar fate like the GCC states, then they don't gain anything by becoming belligerent.


Find it and show it to me. China preferred a ceasefire for economic reasons and it got one by using their levers on us. China buys 80% of our oil and they're a permanent member of the UN Security Council.


Nobody had such expectations. Do not twist my words.

Pakistan works alongside nato for counter terrorism. They are one of the few friendly countries for iran.

They are also a nuclear power.
They have cred, you are just ignorant in global politics. Go read a book or two and come back.