Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[iron shrapnel]

Hormuz conundrum

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[nervouscar]

Why not Munir Ahmad Khan? or Bhutto? or Zia? or N. Sharif?

He suffered and absorbed the hit ..major future complications averted beside his decision to return a lucrative job.most of all had the same mentality of a common muslim pakistani (didnt considered west as god appointed people ),, had a clear vision of what was to effect pakistan in future, loved by nation and was not corrupt like many others(he even donated 6million to built a hostel in GIK which he had to leave later )..munir ahmed khan was not made to suffer like aq khan..
Moreover, 500 ruppee can have edhi,1000 can have israr ahmed,100 rupee can have aga hasanabedi just my off topic 2 cents

 

[ShapurII]

The Iraqi air force during the 1980s was going up against the IRIAF that was under sanctions and the only advantage that they had over the IRIAF was quantitative.

They had a pretty decent air force. Mig-21, Mig-23, Mig-25, Mig-29, Sukhoi-22, Sukhoi-25, Sukhoi-27, Mirage F1, Super Etendard and Mirage F1. They had more than 500 jet fighters. The IRIAF stopped a formidable air force of its time, and even had superiority over them.

The U.S and Israel today have relied extensively of Stand off weapons and when they have flown over Iran, they have taken losses.

Aerial warfare has changed since late 80s. What's your point? Iran had F-14s back then, which is the equivalent of F-22s in today's warfare.

Edit: What losses, by the way? You are talking about one F-35 and F-15, after thousands of sorties over Iran. Only F-15 was shot down, by the way.

 

[ShapurII]

Fair enough but neither should be words of an Iranian-Italian who denies multiple reports of Pakistani escorts of the Iranian delegates from inside the Iran through landing in Islamabad. Why is it so hard for you to believe the Pakistani escort when Iran doesn't even have an air force and when Iran is unable to protect its topmost leadership in this war?
You had above denied any Pakistani aircraft presence in Iran to help the Iranian delegates and yet you don't logically see that possibility? What is your animus toward Pakistan?!!

Multiple reports by whom? People like Hussein Baqeri? lol
And I'm not an Iranian Italian. My parents are Iranian and I was born and raised in Tehran. My only nationality is Iranian.

Either prove your claim or stop wasting my time. It is up to you to come up with some evidence from an official source, it's not on me to disprove you.

 

[vizier]

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Also if Iran has semi-submersible boats similar to NK has and the midget submarines are still handy tools. These can still be intact with scoot tactics even if air superiority is taken by the enemy. Those investments having asymmetric qualities paid off unlike the larger surface ships which were destroyed almost immediately.

 

[Kyussis]

Good points and Irans ballistic missiles certainly did the job and drones offensively

but Irans defensive capability is lacking

those sub sonic Tomahawks are just flyover all over Iran

I hope Iran has a answer for them which would force US to switch to stand off

Those subsonic tomahawks fly low and are designed for infiltration of enemy air defense. If flying lawnmowers aka Shahed drones are able to penetrate U.S air defenses in the region on a regular basis, it is understandable that Iran would be vulnerable to top of the line U.S and Israeli stand off weapons. The U.S are running out of Stand off cruise missiles and will have to fly more and more into Iranian air space where they are vulnerable to Iran's air defense.

 

[nervouscar]

Ask the Iranian brothers about the way they were escorted by our fly boys, who were armed to the teeth, all the way to ....

First time of many things happened today.

Suffice is to say, PAF has made us proud again today.

There is this terms circulating AIR MOBILITY DECEPTION..to describe whole package delivery and return operations. I think this is forst of its kind by PAf

 

[KingQamaR]

Fair enough but neither should be words of an Iranian-Italian who denies multiple reports of Pakistani escorts of the Iranian delegates from inside the Iran through landing in Islamabad. Why is it so hard for you to believe the Pakistani escort when Iran doesn't even have an air force and when Iran is unable to protect its topmost leadership in this war?
You had above denied any Pakistani aircraft presence in Iran to help the Iranian delegates and yet you don't logically see that possibility? What is your animus toward Pakistan?!!

Brother, why do you talk to a moron like him for.

 

[Meengla]

Either prove your claim or stop wasting my time. It is up to you to come up with some evidence from an official source, it's not on me to disprove you.

I am sure you'd know that the Iranian leadership, being unsafe even in Tehran, would be unsafe to fly thousands of miles to Pakistan when so many hostile eyes are on Iran. I referred to two guys--one an Iranian journalist reporting from Tehran and one Pakistani reporter; both of them saying Pakistani aircrafts escorted the Iranians from within Iran itself. Hussain Baqri even mentioned a non-Tehran city's name, which I am forgetting right now, to say that that airport was used to fly out of Iran.
And you know that such kinds of missions are not talked about 'officially' but it makes perfect sense that the Iranians needed protection given their circumstances.

 

[ShapurII]

Those subsonic tomahawks fly low and are designed for infiltration of enemy air defense. If flying lawnmowers aka Shahed drones are able to penetrate U.S air defenses in the region on a regular basis, it is understandable that Iran would be vulnerable to top of the line U.S and Israeli stand off weapons. The U.S are running out of Stand off cruise missiles and will have to fly more and more into Iranian air space where they are vulnerable to Iran's air defense.

This is why people here insisted that OTH radars are not enough for a country with Iran's topography. This is why you need AWACS planes and jet fighters to cover your air space and blind spots.

Shahed-136 carries a 40-45 kg warhead. A Tomahawk missile carries a 450kg warhead. Apples and oranges.

 

[Meengla]

Hamid Mir is a reputable Pakistani journalist. He is echoing what other Pakistani journalists are starting to say as the dust is settling and information is coming out. Apparently, Pakistanis remained engaged with the Iranian delegation for quite some time after Vance left. It is clear to me that there was indeed considerable understanding, and that Vance is going to report to Trump his notes, and that another Iran-America meeting likely, and that a meeting may happen in America itself over the Lebanon issue. Also, per this video, the nuclear/fissile material are NOT the major issue: It is Lebanon!
Sorry, no English caption but first 5-6 minutes are enough to watch.

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[maverick]

US just anniunced the complete blockade of Strait of Hormuz…

the whole world will go in a economic tailspin.

 

[ShapurII]

I am sure you'd know that the Iranian leadership, being unsafe even in Tehran, would be unsafe to fly thousands of miles to Pakistan when so many hostile eyes are on Iran. I referred to two guys--one an Iranian journalist reporting from Tehran and one Pakistani reporter; both of them saying Pakistani aircrafts escorted the Iranians from within Iran itself. Hussain Baqri even mentioned a non-Tehran city's name, which I am forgetting right now, to say that that airport was used to fly out of Iran.
And you know that such kinds of missions are not talked about 'officially' but it makes perfect sense that the Iranians needed protection given their circumstances.

This is not some theoretical problem that we try to prove it with discussion. We are in the world of factual events now. So, you either provide official evidence, or please stop replying to me as it doesn't really interest me and is of no importance for the fate of this war.

Also, even your theory is ridiculous. So, the Iranian delegation flew over a thousand kilometers from Tehran to some small Iranian city near Pakistan to be escorted by you for the remaining flight path? As if the US and Israel couldn't intercept them before getting there if they wanted to? And nobody caught this escorting on all these radars in the world? Even if you turn off your transponder, you will still show up on radars as unidentified.

I would go even further and say that the Pakistani escort was only a symbolic act of friendship with Iran, and also a symbolic act of prestige for PR by the PAF.

 

[Kyussis]

They had a pretty decent air force. Mig-21, Mig-23, Mig-25, Mig-29, Sukhoi-22, Sukhoi-25, Sukhoi-27, Mirage F1, Super Etendard and Mirage F1. They had more than 500 jet fighters. The IRIAF stopped a formidable air force of its time, and even had superiority over them.

All with the exception of the Mig-29s (which only came into service at the end of the war) where 3rd Gen aircraft. All the Russian aircraft were downgraded export version of what the Soviets where flying at the time. Iran had 4th Generation F-14s from day one and our older F-4D/Es where more capable than most the types flown by the Iraqis. This is why I said their only advantage was Quantitative. Unlike Iran, Iraq was able to purchase fighters to replace their loses and build up their fleet.

Edit: What losses, by the way? You are talking about one F-35 and F-15, after thousands of sorties over Iran. Only F-15 was shot down, by the way.

They have lost more than that but those are the ones that proof has been provided for.

 

[313Ghazi]

US just anniunced the complete blockade of Strait of Hormuz…

the whole world will go in a economic tailspin.

I don't think anything Trump says should count unless like a committee actually confirm it. Bro just made it up on the spot after he got confused by a journalist.