lightning f57
Trusted Member
Hold your horses firstly its just released and its a preview not the end release.
DeepSeek, China's AI model: News & Discussion
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lightning f57
Trusted Member
Even with their extra commute costs which they will bring down in some months with Huawei chips they wipe the floor in cost vs Anthropic and closedai.
American models are starting to become very expensive with the small improvements in every release which dont justify the costs.
lightning f57
Trusted Member
Jensen knows once Chinese companies have a viable alternative hardware, software stack his companies share price will take a big hit. American dominance in this field is already under challenge. China needs a few more years to sort the hardware out.
神威98
Registered Member
I normally don't use ChatGPT or any West AI chat bots, only as occasional reference to compare results.
Another way I think Deepseek is better than ChatGPT is... I hate making choices. Now more often than not I refer to Deepseek to tell me the better choice of two options. Try asking Deepseek, if you set a centered desktop resolution, which is better 1366x768 or 1360x768.
The reason or explanation WHY one is better than the other is where I think Deepseek is better than ChatGPT.
Every time I asked Deepseek a choice question, I have never been disappointed by its answer.
Another way I think Deepseek is better than ChatGPT is... I hate making choices. Now more often than not I refer to Deepseek to tell me the better choice of two options. Try asking Deepseek, if you set a centered desktop resolution, which is better 1366x768 or 1360x768.
The reason or explanation WHY one is better than the other is where I think Deepseek is better than ChatGPT.
Every time I asked Deepseek a choice question, I have never been disappointed by its answer.
Ali_Baba
VIP Member
He is missing the point entirely(again). The point is that China has its own AI models, and it is no longer dependent on the USA for another core strategic future technology, and as with everything China will work on it, improve and overtake it.
Ali_Baba
VIP Member
You know, you could always learn to speak correctly with the accent of the King's English ?
... It will open up a whole new world for you.
No one is saying Chinese models are overtaking US models.
The challenge for US AI firms is that Chinese models are significantly cheaper, at 1/10 to 1/20 the cost. Popular estimates put Chinese frontier models around 6 months behind US models.
For many firms, that's good enough with significantly lower cost. Most firms don't need bleeding edge AI. This means that it's very hard for US models to increase prices especially with options from open source Chinese models, so they are not going to be profitable anytime soon.
The challenge for US AI firms is that Chinese models are significantly cheaper, at 1/10 to 1/20 the cost. Popular estimates put Chinese frontier models around 6 months behind US models.
For many firms, that's good enough with significantly lower cost. Most firms don't need bleeding edge AI. This means that it's very hard for US models to increase prices especially with options from open source Chinese models, so they are not going to be profitable anytime soon.
F-22Raptor
Elite Member
DeepSeek’s Long-Awaited New Model Fails to Narrow US Lead in AI
When China’s DeepSeek released a competitive new artificial intelligence model called R1 last January purportedly built for less than many rivals, some feared the achievement posed a threat to America’s lead in artificial intelligence.
More than a year later, DeepSeek has unveiled preview versions of a long-awaited new flagship model called V4, which costs less than many alternatives to use but doesn’t meaningfully narrow the US lead in AI capabilities. You could almost hear sighs of relief emanating from Washington and Silicon Valley.
“It is not competitive with frontier US models, and does not appear to close the gap with the United States in AI,” saidChris McGuire, a senior fellow for China and emerging technologies at the Council on Foreign Relations.
Dean Ball, a former AI adviser in the Trump administration, echoed the sentiment. “R1 remains the closest I’ve seen Chinese models get to the U.S. frontier,” he wrote in a post on social media. “V4 is further behind than that.”
DeepSeek unveiled the V4 Flash and V4 Pro series on Friday, touting top-tier performance in coding benchmarks and big advancements in reasoning and agentic tasks. But in a paper accompanying the release, the Chinese company conceded that, in certain respects, the new model lags the most cutting-edge AI software in the US.
“DeepSeek-V4-Pro-Max demonstrates superior performance relative to GPT-5.2 and Gemini-3.0-Pro on standard reasoning benchmarks,” the company said, referring to months-old models from OpenAI and Alphabet Inc.’s Google. “Nevertheless, its performance falls marginally short of GPT-5.4 and Gemini-3.1-Pro, suggesting a developmental trajectory that trails state-of-the-art frontier models by approximately 3 to 6 months.”
DeepSeek’s model is likely even further behind OpenAI’s GPT-5.5, a newer offering released the day before V4 that’s designed to be better at completing tasks without much direction.
While it will take time for people to adopt the model and test it out, the initial details may provide some relief to US executives and officials who have been bracing for DeepSeek’s next release.
US tech companies have accused DeepSeek and other Chinese firms of basing their chatbots at least in part on American AI models — a practice known as distillation. House lawmakers have pushed for sanctions on Chinese firms, and the White House announced its own efforts to rein in adversarial distillation.
In February of this year, OpenAI sent a memo to Congress noting it has found continued and sophisticated distillation attempts from actors in China and Russia. “DeepSeek’s next model (whatever its form) should be understood in the context of its ongoing efforts to free-ride on the capabilities developed by OpenAI and other US frontier Labs,” OpenAI wrote in the memo.
Even if DeepSeek’s new model fails to outperform the most advanced software from OpenAI, Anthropic PBC and Google, it could still pose risks to their businesses by undercutting them on price.
DeepSeek, like its Chinese peers, has focused on open-weight models, meaning that parts of the underlying AI system are publicly available for users to freely download and run on their own platforms — and therefore is cheaper to use. US officials have estimated that unauthorized distillation costs Silicon Valley labs billions of dollars in annual profit, Bloomberg News has reported.
In a blog post Friday, developer Simon Willison describedDeepSeek’s V4 as “almost on the frontier, a fraction of the price.” For DeepSeek, that may be good enough.
F-22Raptor
Elite Member
In fact, China is almost completely dependent on US AI hardware and distillation of frontier US models to even remain competitive. Deepseeks model was trained on illegally obtained Blackwell chips.
China remains a fast follower in almost every technology that matters.
Ali_Baba
VIP Member
China has the foundations of an independent ecosystem that is increasingly not dependent on the USA. It is becoming an independent pole in its own right, and it has the advantage of a large enough population for that technology to have widespread adoption.
Your recurringly struggle to under the basics of strategic thought, or that the direction of change that is happening over time and assume what is "now" will always remain the case.
Your mindset is reflective on why the USA is progressively losing to China in every field. I hope for your sake, your fellow citizens are more open minded of strategic thought that you.
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Yellow is Okay
Registered Member
The US actually stands to gain from Chinese open-weight models too. It's not the one-sided loss most people assume it is. There's already a whole ecosystem of American cloud services hosting them, and that's revenue flowing to both US cloud providers and hardware manufacturers.
F-22Raptor
Elite Member
Cope and word salad. US technology hegemony reigns supreme. First to Covid mRNA vaccine, first to GLP-1s with Eli Lilly now dominating the market, first to ChatGPT, AI hardware dominance, first to fracking, first to EVs, first to fusion ignition, first to quantum advantage, first to reusable rockets, first to Internet satellite constellations etc
China has revolutionized almost no industry. It tried with 5G, and that turned out to be a huge disappointment. Fact remains, China is a fast follower in almost every technology that matters. That’s been a consistent theme for years.
Ali_Baba
VIP Member
No word salad, just the reality of the inflection point between the fall of the USA and the rise of China.
The silliest thing I have read on this forum and there have been some real clangers. Congratulations on that.
