PA MLRS, Self Propelled and towed artillery [BM-11, Fatah-I GMLRS, Fatah-II] - News, Updates & Discussions

[Awan68]

Why was Fatah 2 not developed as something like HIMARS? a couple of missle's per TEL beats the purpose of creating a rocket salvo to supress enemy forces over wide terrain, even if Fatah 2 will be used for high value targets like S-400, i dont think a couple of missles would be able to saturate its defences enough to beat it.
P.S. we have much more potent options in the shape of Babur and Raad for high value targets anyways.

 

[MS Sandhu]

Why was Fatah 2 not developed as something like HIMARS? a couple of missle's per TEL beats the purpose of creating a rocket salvo to supress enemy forces over wide terrain, even if Fatah 2 will be used for high value targets like S-400, i dont think a couple of missles would be able to saturate its defences enough to beat it.
P.S. we have much more potent options in the shape of Babur and Raad for high value targets anyways.

Fatah-2 is a rapid response System.
If it really have some limited maneuvering capability then a salvo of F2 missiles can successfully get the job done.
Baburs and Raads are slow buddies.Can't reach the target on time.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Effectiveness of GMLRS, Suicide Drones and Absoluteness of Tanks
One thing i can't get get is why Pak army is so keen on Tanks, why not induct guided 122mm MLRS, guided artillery shells, along with anti personal killer drones, and Light combat vehicles, personal carried loitering munitions, new shoulder fired system to increase firepower of the infantry at squad Level.
Lets just for a moment Look into scenario where an army is equiped with such weapons, can do
The guided Rockets
Rockets like Fateh 1,2,3&4 are launched in salvo at Enemy headquarters, command and control centers, Fuel and ammunition dumps.
The 122mm guided rockets and 155mm guided artillery would see more use in taking out enemy bunkers, Troops and artillery on the border
Suicide Drones
Anti personal drones would take out the enemy troops left after the previous guided artillery on slaught
Small self exploding quad copters with AI swarms tactics would take out enemy troops
Loitering munitions with ranges upto 50-60 km can be used to degrade and destroy enemy Short range and medium range air defense assets
Light combat Vehicles
Equiped with Atgms and MGs and would quickly move in to insert and provide to cover to Infantry, while infantry euipped with ATGMs, anti personal drones, loitering munition and fire support from Guided rockets would be able to hold out its, strike critical targets and Carry oit large scale operations without needing CAS from PAF.
They are just wasting precious money on tanks, which can be used to procure guided rockets, Suicide drones to give the army some serious firepower,
Tanks are just Maintenance and upkeep nightmare.

Good points. But, tanks have got their own utilities too, and infantrymen won't move an inch without its support....

The job is to make the tanks immune to the clear and present dangers of loitering munitions, ATGMs fired from different platforms, etc....


The Turkish apptoach:
- Provode intelligent active protection for hard-kill (AKKOR)
- Resident AI controlled autonomous mini drones with 35mm tounds and mortar shells to act as lethal scouts in 10km range (multiple products from STM)
- Ability to fire ASELSAN programmable smart ATOM rounds, supported by detection and tracking systems, to shoot down the loitering munitions
- Etc.

 

[farooqbhai]

As someone pointed out that the Fatah TEL in this parade had several differences from the one showcased in 2022 parade.


There are 3 new boxes that have been right below the launcher section. And the Serials on the TELs are different too. Which is essentially confirmation that Fatah is in service.

@Panzerkiel any idea on how many Regiments of Fatah we are current fielding ?

 

[Panzerkiel]

As someone pointed out that the Fatah TEL in this parade had several differences from the one showcased in 2022 parade.
View attachment 28509
View attachment 28510
There are 3 new boxes that have been right below the launcher section. And the Serials on the TELs are different too. Which is essentially confirmation that Fatah is in service.

@Panzerkiel any idea on how many Regiments of Fatah we are current fielding ?

More than 1 i should say. This specific example, as the sign says, is from 2 Artillery Division.

 

[arjunk]

Why was Fatah 2 not developed as something like HIMARS? a couple of missle's per TEL beats the purpose of creating a rocket salvo to supress enemy forces over wide terrain, even if Fatah 2 will be used for high value targets like S-400, i dont think a couple of missles would be able to saturate its defences enough to beat it.
P.S. we have much more potent options in the shape of Babur and Raad for high value targets anyways.

Babur is an expensive highly sophisticated nuclear cruise missile. Fatah is a cheap artillery rocket.

 

[falcon34]

More than 1 i should say. This specific example, as the sign says, is from 2 Artillery Division.

How launchers would one regiment have??

 

[Panzerkiel]

How launchers would one regiment have??

Generally three batteries, with six launchers in each battery.

 

[falcon34]

Generally three batteries, with six launchers in each battery.

In ur opinion, how much regiments would be sufficient to tackle india?

 

[falcon34]

Babur is an expensive highly sophisticated nuclear cruise missile. Fatah is a cheap artillery rocket.

I don't think so it has anything to do it with being expensive, we make the entire missile in house, price could be 200k$-500k$
I think the army learnt its lessen from the poor performance of subsonic cms in ukraine, so they are focusing on High supersonic manuverable SSMs.

 

[farooqbhai]

In ur opinion, how much regiments would be sufficient to tackle india?

Indians as of 2024 have
3 Smerch Regiment (12x3=36 TEL)
6 Pinaka Regiments (18x6=108 TEL)
And have planned another 4 Pinaka Regiments (18x4=72 TEL)

PA meanwhile appears to have
3 A100 Regiments (18x3=54 TEL)
2 Fatah Regiments (18x2=36 TEL)
? ? Regiments (?)

 

[Corax]

If Fatah I with its 70-80km range is nuclear armed, then surely Fatah II and the follow on Fatah III and IV are likely to be nuclear armed as well? Does this mean that these systems are likely to be replacements for legacy ballistic missiles like Gaznavi, Abdali, maybe even early versions of Shaheen?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

In ur opinion, how much regiments would be sufficient to tackle india?

IMO depends! After losing 2 aircrafts they stopped the air campaign, and after losing 20 soldiers they stopped getting back 2K km2 of land. How many tanks are to be destroyed so that they stop the armored assault?

 

[Bilal]

If Fatah I with its 70-80km range is nuclear armed, then surely Fatah II and the follow on Fatah III and IV are likely to be nuclear armed as well? Does this mean that these systems are likely to be replacements for legacy ballistic missiles like Gaznavi, Abdali, maybe even early versions of Shaheen?

Fatah-1 is a 140km conventional MRLS. You are talking about Nasr.

 

[Corax]

Fatah-1 is a 140km conventional MRLS. You are talking about Nasr.

Sorry, yes you're right. That's what I was trying to understand, if Nasr was explicitly stated as a tactical nuke platform with its much shorter range, then surely the Fatah series are likely to be nuclear armed as well? But I don't think they've bee explicitly stated as such, which I find a bit odd.