A personal story of mine, and a cautionary tale for those who read it.

[Ali_Baba]

This is the "Pakistani story", where most of us know someone who has gone through this.

If he owes 35 million PKR, he should be able to repay the bulk of that because that sum of money far exceeds the annual salary in the Pakistan so I can't imagine he has spent that much in one go ? Has that been asked? It is a check on his "new found integrity" to explain where it all went if he cannot repay the bulk of it in one go.

Here in the UK, whenever a Pakistani teenager would get into trouble with the Law, the "community" at large used to push that person into religion, and they ended up a maulvi's etc. I there don't trust maulvi's here other than religious protocols.

Also, I have found(my view from my experience) here in the UK, the more "overtly" Islamically religious a person is, the more they prefix and post fix their sentences with religious phrases, then the more of a "probability(my personal experience!!!!!)" they are a lying cheating scheming scumbag bastard that they turn out to be and to me, it is a red flag. Religion does not make a person trust worthy, their inner morality and soul goes.

(Appreciate some people may find my last paragraph offensive, that is not the intent, that is just my life experience ... )

Hopefully you get it back, and if not - sue them until their eyeballs squeal to force them to spend money on legal fees etc

@Watandar - Hope you are not too offended by what I wrote - appreciate some people may take exception with one of my paragraphs.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately we as people always present ourselves as devout Muslims and some of the most moral but what we have normalised as common is the complete opposite. We are hypocrites.

 

[EugeneP]

@Watandar - Hope you are not too offended by what I wrote - appreciate some people may take exception with one of may paragraphs.

You can remove the word "Islamically", and the statement would still be true.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" (Samuel Johnson, 1775). Applies to Religion too. We are seeing that at the highest levels of governments here.

 

[Ak01]

Salam,

Condolences about the loss of your family member. I hope you have had time to heal and grieve.

Did you register FIR? What was the update? If you need help registering FIR or if you are getting push back from depts DM me.

You can 100% get this man locked up of you have kept all the messages, falsified documents, receipts etc.

thanks man, ive not had an FIR registered yet, i will wait and give him a chance to pay us back based on the dates he's claimed, once thats done, i will get him locked up, minus some of his teeth.

if he falls through on it, ill have him locked up regardless. Appreciate the offer and ill reach out to you depending what happens!

 

[Ak01]

This is the "Pakistani story", where most of us know someone who has gone through this.

If he owes 35 million PKR, he should be able to repay the bulk of that because that sum of money far exceeds the annual salary in the Pakistan so I can't imagine he has spent that much in one go ? Has that been asked? It is a check on his "new found integrity" to explain where it all went if he cannot repay the bulk of it in one go.

I suspect he does have the money, or atleast, he purchased a plot on his own name with it, i guess he may have listed it for sale... ill just have to wait and see. he has two weeks til the date he promised!

Here in the UK, whenever a Pakistani teenager would get into trouble with the Law, the "community" at large used to push that person into religion, and they ended up a maulvi's etc. I there don't trust maulvi's here other than religious protocols.

To be honest, british muslims put me off of islam a fair bit, while i wouldnt describe myself as a non muslim, seeing the state of what we're putting out, their opinions, views, beliefs etc tends to genuinely be things i cant get behind. I find alot of them to be hypocrites, or even worse, but they get a free pass because of their beard and thobes, while taking the piss out of others. UK Dawah bros are actually a cancer to islam

Also, I have found(my view from my experience) here in the UK, the more "overtly" Islamically religious a person is, the more they prefix and post fix their sentences with religious phrases, then the more of a "probability(my personal experience!!!!!)" they are a lying cheating scheming scumbag bastard that they turn out to be and to me, it is a red flag. Religion does not make a person trust worthy, their inner morality and soul goes.

(Appreciate some people may find my last paragraph offensive, that is not the intent, that is just my life experience ... )

Hopefully you get it back, and if not - sue them until their eyeballs squeal to force them to spend money on legal fees etc

unfortunately i doubt the suits would work in Pak, but i know he is terrified, he'll pay some way.

 

[Ak01]

I am sorry this happened to you. Property and inheritance are very fraught issues and cause a lot of conflict in Pakistani families.

thanks man

I don't want to go into details but once my grandfather passed away, we also lost our house in Peshawar where I grew up due to manipulation and fraud by relatives. Apparently my grandfather's will was changed right before his passing without any of us knowing before hand. And the hurtful thing is that it's always your relatives who do this. Corrupt lawyers, judges and ghundas are brought in to empty the house so that it can hurriedly be sold.

honestly, such a reminder to the corruption within humans, that the people you'd least expect to do this stuff to go around and stab you in the back

You really find out the sheer level of jealously and resentment other people have, including cousins and distant relatives, once your parent or grandparent passes away.

absolutely. when the elders pass, you realise how fragmented everything was, being held together by just one link

I would advise people in Pakistan to please clean up any property title issues like in whose name it is, what are its exact boundaries, any liens against it and also record all property transactions legally. If one brother sells property to another but doesn't bother recording it, later generations encounter major problems.

1000%

We also have cases in Pakistani courts to recover our property or get share of the sale but those cases drag on for 40 50 years and rarely resolve quickly without influence or bribe to judges.

When it comes to matters of money and property, Pakistanis, no matter their blood relations and no matter religiosity, are extremely unreliable.

indeed, its unfortunate, but i guess i still hold out hope that as much as we encounter the bad in people, i do believe there will be 1000x good pakistanis for 1x bad

 

[Dalit]

I wanted to share an occurence that happened with me and my family recently. Im not sharing for sympathy, but rather as a sobering reminder that nobody, no matter how much you know them can ever be trusted. Take my story as a lesson and please do not let this happen to you.


Around 7 months ago, my aunt suddenly passed away of sepsis. She (them all widowed) was among 5 siblings, 2 of which including my father lived in the UK, 2 of which lived in Pakistan, of which one, has really, really bad dementia.

Now as with every Pakistani family, there’s always internal strife, in our case, it was between our cousins. So for the sake of keeping important documents protected etc, my aunts would give them to Mr S.

Now I don’t know what the story behind Mr S is, but, Mr S was very close to the family. All of the siblings would donate tons of money to his madrasahs, for decades at that too. Everyone trusted him, immensely, he was the one my aunts relied on over there to get stuff done because they couldn’t themselves. Property, banking, whatever.

Now, we have a family house in Gulshan E Iqbal, that property was purchased by my father, however his mother wished for it to be equally split among his siblings, so he did so. My aunt however handed her share over to my siblings, for this, she had given all the paperwork etc, but for some reason, never got around to filing it. But anyhow, Mr S had the papers for this, they stayed with him the entire time.

Time goes on, and my aunt breaks her leg. She needs surgery, now, she had a rod placed in her leg, however, a few months later this got infected (please please please get any post surgery infections properly checked out!). This infection turned out to be sepsis. Now as we know, sepsis is extremely aggressive and within 3 days, my aunt had passed away.

This turned everyone’s world upside down. Nothing was ever the same, the house was empty, falling apart, the future was uncertain, especially for my other aunt with dementia, as she was her support system, everything just turned upside down. My father was extremely close to her and it devastated him like I had never seen before.

A year prior, my father had just beaten cancer, but he was never the same again. The toll it took on him just changed him as a person and his personality, understandably so. A month prior to my aunts passing, my cousin had passed due to cancer, it was horrible timing and just a lot to go through.

As with everything, the death turned into an opportunity for everything to become a free for all. Remember how I said they would keep the papers with Mr S to prevent my cousins getting their grubby fingers on them? Well some of the papers were kept in my aunts closet, which was raided the next day, the papers and her jewellery vanished, her clothes were taken out and replaced with my cousins’. Disgusting. Heck, they even took her phone, erasing it, deleting any photos and messages from her.

They’re a deplorable bunch really. My father at the time had no photos or voice notes or anything from his sister. Everything was left on that phone. Annoyingly I didn’t take the phone and hide it because I did not think people could stoop this low, but alas, they ensured that my father could not even have a single photo of his sister. Disgusting people.

Getting back to the story, my father knew the papers were with Mr S, including the ones of my aunt’s share. So my father asks him to begin the proceedings to have the shares transferred in my siblings names so we can sell everything off and do some good with the money in her name.

Mr S happily complies, as we expected from him. Obviously we knew this would take money, but my father not being local, had no clue how much and what the process was. Mr S would ask for hundreds of thousands at a time, sending convincing looking documents, posting stuff to us in the UK to sign and return etc, all seemed legit. Obviously all of this was underwritten by the immense amount of trust we had in him as a family.

I remember thinking to myself however, mr S has never invited us over. Not even as much to offer us chai at his, or food, or anything. Obviously being Pakistani, this is extremely strange to me, and I kept questioning my father about this.

The other strange behaviour I noted was he met us at the graveyard one day, at my aunts grave to give us a file with some of the documents, he came, handed us the file and left. Didn’t even bother as much to recite fatiha. Though, I can imagine the shame was probably eating him alive- or so, I’d like to think so. Who knows with these sorts of dogs.

My father doesn’t really question any of this. Until his deadlines were never met. Papers will be issued next week, this office is being slow, that one is on holiday, the usual excuses. We get a bit suspicious, but my dad, holding on to the decades of family relations we’ve had with them, their madrassah, their charity etc, carried on just sending him what he’d ask for.

It all carries on, he would send questionable looking documents that I’d look at and think hmm, but at the same time, I know the system isn’t really the greatest in Pakistan and documents that may not meet the standards of what I would expect probably do exist, so I let this carry on, with caution.

Again, months go by, he’s asking for more money, all in all, worked out to about 1.5 million PKR. My father, in hopes that he can do something good with his sisters share carries on holding hope, with him thinking there’s no way this guy would ruin 40 years of ties, support, trust etc.

We do however ask someone we trusted, our old tenants, who was a manager at a bank, he confirmed the payments weren’t real or something, HOWEVER, the issue once again arises, who do we believe. Our tenant who was abruptly made to move by my horrid cousins at my aunts passing, or this guy everyone deeply trusted for 40 years. My father held onto hope, and carried on going.

Months pass by, we’re now in April, and suddenly, my aunt (the uk one) calls my father and tells him, “Mr S is a fraud”.

Turns out, Mr S had also held the papers for a plot my other aunt had purchased a few years back, pre Covid. Turns out, my aunt was asking about her plot, and it was sold in 2022, without her knowledge.

The bastard had sold it from under her, without her knowledge and kept the money.

His brazenness is unreal, he sold the plot 4 years ago, kept accepting charity and asking for more money from my aunt, he kept leading on my aunts and father for money, documents, support etc, all while having already conducted this fraud. Nobody batted an eye or thought to ask because they trusted him.

This is where his house of cards starts to fall down. Mr S was caught, he started ignoring my father’s messages etc, until my father lets him know he’s been caught. We know he’s a fraud, we know he sold our land from under us, and we know the papers are gone and he’s stolen the originals and had strung us along with fakes for money, the game was up.

He admitted to it all, he was caught.

Now, my father offered to him to make amends, that it’ll stay quiet and nobody will know, that he must repay every single penny stolen from us. He owes us in excess of 35 million PKR.

Now, whether he pays it back, we won’t know. He’s offered to start paying it back this month. At the end of the month we’re expecting the first tranche. I do think he will pay it back, one way, or another. He is terrified and knows he will be receiving a software update if he does decide to pull a fast one.

It amazes me, he has the nerve to address my father as bhai, he has the nerve to use the name of god in his messages, “Inshaallah I will begin paying at the end of this month” etc etc, starts his messages with salam . The irony, he took all of the peace a grieving family had, and yet still wishes peace upon us. He took advantage of a dead woman who trusted him so much that she handed him everything she had to be the guardian of. He stood there, at her gravesite, continuing to take advantage of her name, to take advantage of her death for his personal gain.

And to me, just disbelief, we have alll heard of the stories. We all know the tales of land theft and family fighting over property, and dodgy agents and all. We’ve heard it a billion times, but what we, or atleast I never expected was that it would happen to us. It really doesn’t feel real. The money doesn’t matter, it really doesn’t, the betrayal, and the trust my dead aunt and my family had in him. All of that is what makes it shocking.

You know, the biggest lesson of this all is one about human nature. He had the ability to ask us for anything, and we’d more than likely oblige. We had helped his charity for 40 years. Our families were there in times of happy, or sad, in deaths, and in births, yet the nature of humans is to want more. It was never enough to have us on speed dial to give him anything he needed. Instead, he needed to pull the wool over our eyes, to take advantage of elderly women who had nobody else to support them out there, to take advantage of a grieving family, to take advantage of our trust.

I don’t share this story for sympathy, I don’t need any, we will get our money back. That is for sure. However, the reason I do share this is to let it be a cautionary tale. Another one to add to the pile, do not trust anybody. Ever. Not your friends, nor family. Doesn’t matter how many decades you’ve known eachother. Doesn’t matter what you’ve been through. Doesn’t matter how good they seem on the outside, nobody can be trusted, barring yourself.

Don’t let yourself go through this. Let this actually be a lesson, these stories exist on the internet, you may hear them through the grapevines, but unfortunately, they are real and they happen more often than you think. No matter how much you think it would never happen to you, just remember, to man, there is nothing dearer than money, and his greed for more wealth.

Take this as a lesson, stay safe people, and I hope you and your families never have to experience this.

Unfortunately this is the sad story of many households in Pakistan.

A Dutch professor at my university told me an incredible story about her father, a retired teacher who used to teach Pakistani children. Years ago, his school principal requested a large sum of money for new projects, only for it to be revealed as a hoax. The father collected tens of thousands of euros for the noble cause in The Netherlands. The principal had stolen everything and disappeared. Unfortunately, our people do these things and their greed has no boundaries.

I can tell you a very recent and similar experience with my own father and cousins. Horrendous.

 

[313Ghazi]

Brothers, please stop being naive.

Never trust anyone with your money.

Sons have looted fathers. Brother has robbed brother. It might not be the case in your house (InshaAllah) but it happens frequently. If those rishtas can be betrayed - what hope do you have with strangers.

 

[313Ghazi]

You live a privileged life in the UK. The government pays for you if you can't pay for yourself. That's how big of a privilege it is to live as a first world person.

Your cousins are living the tough life back home and have to make ends meet and you judge them as 'horrid' for trying. I can't sympathize with this..

Poverty is better than haram.

I talk from experience.

 

[Meengla]

Don’t let yourself go through this. Let this actually be a lesson, these stories exist on the internet, you may hear them through the grapevines, but unfortunately, they are real and they happen more often than you think. No matter how much you think it would never happen to you, just remember, to man, there is nothing dearer than money, and his greed for more wealth.

O you who have believed, when you contract a debt for a specified term, write it down. And let a scribe write [it] between you in justice..." — Quran.com, 2:282

Always write down and take control of such matters. Mr S, brother, sister, etc might be pious at first, but the devil can way in later. Don't test or put such a huge responsibility on someone. They will cave in.

My average annual income working here in America has never sunk below $50,000 per year since 1999. I have no kids, no debt whatsoever, no health issues, no prescriptions. I am frugal. My car is a small 2009 Toyota Yaris. I have never even traveled in an Economy Plus let alone First Class. Never even stayed at a 4 star hotel, let alone 5 stars. But at least $220,000 of my money has been sent to Pakistan since 2004 to help the family there. Imagine if that would be invested here.

But when I was last in Pakistan in August/Sept 2025, I explained that to a brother, he said 'Well, you were helping your father'. He forgot to mention that the deceased father was the one who was keeping the house running where the brother was also living in their really bad times. The brother has flown multiple times on First Class, stayed at 5 stars hotels.. And in that trip, I gave up 1/4th of my inheritance in the family textile mill. My father was the last honorable man I knew in my life; he had kept an online Excel sheet of every penny I sent to him with the intention to pay back, even though I had repeatedly told him to not worry about any payback; it brings tears to my eyes to think about him even if he is gone since 2009. Honor and love in one person!!

I don't hate any brother or anyone else. I have only love for them. Yes, I really do. Just wonder often how could people make wrong choices in life like them and think it would be fine for them. The biggest mistake, IMO, people make in life is to have kids without the financial means. He and all my siblings in Karachi had lavish weddings. My own 'wedding' here in America was a Court Marriage costing $37 in licensing fee in 2003--and I am still married to my lovely wife.

 

[Watandar]

My average annual income working here in America has never sunk below $50,000 per year since 1999. I have no kids, no debt whatsoever, no health issues, no prescriptions. I am frugal. My car is a small 2009 Toyota Yaris. I have never even traveled in an Economy Plus let alone First Class. Never even stayed at a 4 star hotel, let alone 5 stars. But at least $220,000 of my money has been sent to Pakistan since 2004 to help the family there. Imagine if that would be invested here.

But when I was last in Pakistan in August/Sept 2025, I explained that to a brother, he said 'Well, you were helping your father'. He forgot to mention that the deceased father was the one who was keeping the house running where the brother was also living in their really bad times. The brother has flown multiple times on First Class, stayed at 5 stars hotels.. And in that trip, I gave up 1/4th of my inheritance in the family textile mill. My father was the last honorable man I knew in my life; he had kept an online Excel sheet of every penny I sent to him with the intention to pay back, even though I had repeatedly told him to not worry about any payback; it brings tears to my eyes to think about him even if he is gone since 2009. Honor and love in one person!!

I don't hate any brother or anyone else. I have only love for them. Yes, I really do. Just wonder often how could people make wrong choices in life like them and think it would be fine for them. The biggest mistake, IMO, people make in life is to have kids without the financial means. He and all my siblings in Karachi had lavish weddings. My own 'wedding' here in America was a Court Marriage costing $37 in licensing fee in 2003--and I am still married to my lovely wife.

2009 Yaris is a bit much. You can get a better and more updated used car like a Civic or Corolla with some modern features at least.

 

[313Ghazi]

2009 Yaris is a bit much. You can get a better and more updated used car like a Civic or Corolla with some modern features at least.

I bought my missus a 2007 Yaris. We've had it a few years Honestly inner city i drive it myself now. 1.3 petrol, nippy enough inner city, easy to park, comfortable - much easier to get in and out of than my beemer. I get the appeal. Also it's really fun when you drive it aggressively.

 

[Aryan_B]

I lost a couple of plots in Islamabad worth about 150K sterling. They were stolen. I am not wasting time going through courts as it would be throwing good money after bad. Its not worth the time needed to deal with a load of shysters who all want backhanders. Luckily I am rich enough to write it off.

But its not the first time I been ripped off in Pakistan. In 1998 I had a Sterling denominated account in a Pakistani bank in Pakistan. I was told i could not have sterling back but had to have Pak Rs. The country had exploded a nuke and PML(N) decided that they would keep paying foreign lenders but would **** their own people living abroad who had foreign currency accounts. In reality that was tantamount to Pakstan being bankrupt.

But the thing is ultimatly its Pakistans loss and the people living there. I could invest money and god knows Pakistan needs people like me to invest there and help drive the ecomomy create jobs etc. But I for one wont.

The state does not gurantee property rights. The courts do not function and protect the innocent.

@Ak01 whilst I wish you well and hope you get something back I doubt this crook will return much. Hes just buying more time imo.

If you can afford it write off an move on spend your time on something you can make more money

 

[I*R*A]

we will get our money back. That is for sure.

Hazrat Omar's famous advice "A Muslim neither deceives nor gets deceived".

Not questioning your position or your family's connections, but no you are not getting that money back. What I did in such case is asked for a future date cheque, quietly went to the bank knowing this will be dishonored and somewhat that was what I was wishing for .. once dishonored I had the legal basis to start the khawari of that person, hired a lawyer, dragged that guy to police stations, refused all negotiations and reconciliation, the guy brought cash to pay me but I refused and insisted with police to register my FIR. I told the police a criminal offence has been committed and you need to register my FIR. I knew police would try to beat around the bus and refuse the FIR so I had the court moved in parallel, did not give any space to police walay and that person .. eventually after few court dates I told my lawyer to tell that guy to write an apology statement on a proper legal stamp paper and submit to the court and I will forfeit any further proceedings. And yep he submitted that apology and paid my amount in cash.

In another case I told the guy (not financially weak or anything by any standards) to say in front of jirga "ALLAH wastay mujay muaf kar dain, mayray pass paisay nai hain wapis lotanay k liay" and I will forget the debt .. the guy's ego was hurt and he had no choice but to pay me because I had the jirga ready outside his house.

With molvi types I would play the molvi card, I will become a bigger molvi than them. If it was me I would simply bring his repute down in charity circles, hurt him where he would feel the pain.

 

[313Ghazi]

I lost a couple of plots in Islamabad worth about 150K sterling. They were stolen. I am not wasting time going through courts as it would be throwing good money after bad. Its not worth the time needed to deal with a load of shysters who all want backhanders. Luckily I am rich enough to write it off.

But its not the first time I been ripped off in Pakistan. In 1998 I had a Sterling denominated account in a Pakistani bank in Pakistan. I was told i could not have sterling back but had to have Pak Rs. The country had exploded a nuke and PML(N) decided that they would keep paying foreign lenders but would **** their own people living abroad who had foreign currency accounts. In reality that was tantamount to Pakstan being bankrupt.

But the thing is ultimatly its Pakistans loss and the people living there. I could invest money and god knows Pakistan needs people like me to invest there and help drive the ecomomy create jobs etc. But I for one wont.

The state does not gurantee property rights. The courts do not function and protect the innocent.

@Ak01 whilst I wish you well and hope you get something back I doubt this crook will return much. Hes just buying more time imo.

If you can afford it write off an move on spend your time on something you can make more money

This is it. Generation after generation gets ripped off. Every single generation learns that Pakistan is not a safe place for your money.

They rely on remittance from the latest set of chumps sent abroad (mainly poor labourers in the middle East and illegal immigrants in the west).

However they neglect us - those of us established abroad who still have ties in Pakistan who wish to invest to make money.

We see the potential - but everyone knows someone burnt. A very close friend of mine had a thriving Amazon business. He's in the UK. It bought him a house (5 bed semi detached, extended, paid in cash), paid for his wedding and he had change from it.

His supplier from Pakistan ripped him off - claimed several containers worth of produce was lost at Karachi port. Insurance didn't cover it.

He just accepted the loss, folded up the business and reinvested in 2 different businesses in the UK as well as a stocks portfolio.

He's wealthier than ever, who lost out - the crooked supplier and his Pakistan based supply chain.