US Perspective on the Iran - Israel / US War

Negotiations failed/cancelled…. Saw few tweets.. can anyone confirm
 
F-22Raptor said:
There’s only one active investigation underway, and no the US doesn’t deliberately target civilian sites.
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Yeah, thousands of dead Irqai's and Afghans disagree, and can we please stop Pretending that Americans gives a crap about Iranian civilians? cause Trump said he send weapons to Iranians to fight govt, the whole protest was manufactured, didn't US support Al-Nusra front which was a off-shoot of AQ in Syria? US has/did/will target civilians, heck US govt kill its own people during ICE protests which weren't even supported/armed by Foreign Govt/Agencies, so lets drop this holier than thou fassad.
 
Starlord said:
Yeah, thousands of dead Irqai's and Afghans disagree, and can we please stop Pretending that Americans gives a crap about Iranian civilians? cause Trump said he send weapons to Iranians to fight govt, the whole protest was manufactured, didn't US support Al-Nusra front which was a off-shoot of AQ in Syria? US has/did/will target civilians, heck US govt kill its own people during ICE protests which weren't even supported/armed by Foreign Govt/Agencies, so lets drop this holier than thou fassad.
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The US has made its mistakes in the past and we acknowledge it, but we don’t deliberately target civilians.

Iran murders tens of thousands of its own civilians, targets 1,000 civilian targets during the war and this forum barely bats an eye. You guys care more about “owning the US” than any murdered Iranian. Thats the reality
 
F-22Raptor said:
So now you have issues with the US targeting Al Qaeda terrorists, and Al Awlaki who was a spiritual advisor to two 9/11 hijackers?

I’m genuinely curious about your ethnicity AZ? Because I’ve yet to see you criticize the Iranian regime once, and now you’re insinuating the US was wrong to target an AQ terrorist who advised 9/11 hijackers, the Ft Hood shooter, and AQAP underwear bomber who targeted a Detroit bound flight.
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I'm pointing out the al-Alwakis were US citizens killed without due process at the order of Barack Obama. Yet, the US risked a commando raid to extract the head of a sovereign nation and it looks as if we may be preparing to do so a second time.

As for my ethnicity, is that really relevant in this discussion? Because frankly it is not. What I have is a lot of years and experiences under my belt. Experiences, based on your postings, you don't have nor are you likely to understand. Like some others here, I earned my right to be cynical.

If you can't handle the truth about what the US has done in the past, then it's probably best you don't set yourself up by posting things like "the US doesn't deliberately target civilians". And then try to qualify it by "well, we don't do it anymore".
 
F-22Raptor said:
The US has made its mistakes in the past and we acknowledge it, but we don’t deliberately target civilians.

Iran murders tens of thousands of its own civilians, targets 1,000 civilian targets during the war and this forum barely bats an eye. You guys care more about “owning the US” than any murdered Iranian. Thats the reality
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Blah blah holier than thou BS, you talk like a broken record kid, US has literately hit and killed civilians overseas and within its borders, lots of examples out there and only few get justice.
I like you miss the whole " US sending weapons " to Iranians to kill its own people part which Trump acknowledge on Live TV, and the whole shortage of Dollar was crafted by USA to incite protest in Iran, And again like I said your hypocrisy is shameful as you pretend you give a crap about Iranians, you wanna fight Iran, fight like real honorable country, and no one is owning US as USA sanctioned Iran for 2-3 decades which they well know only hurt Iranian people, USA send weapon and did regime changes to create chaos in countries that doesn't bend the knee or who papa Israel don't like..

At least Israeli's are honest about their murderous & Genocidal intents, you are just shameful hide behind pretending you actually give a F about Iranians.
 
hasssanali8998 said:
That's what I told F-22. Iran made their weapons by themselves, so unless you killed everyone who has ever worked on the missiles and drones, they will always rebuild especially when their existence is at stake.
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It is also necessary to cut off all transportation routes to Iran. For example, Russia's support in the Black Sea and China's trade routes through Central Asia and the land corridor via Pakistan.

The "China-Russia Joint Statement" clearly points out: U.S. and Israeli military strikes against Iran violate international law and the basic norms of international relations, seriously undermining the stability of the Middle East. It emphasizes that the parties involved in the conflict should return to dialogue and negotiation as soon as possible to prevent the spread and spillover of war.

The "China-Russia Joint Statement" clearly points out: brazenly launching military attacks on other countries under the guise of negotiation, killing the leaders of sovereign states, destabilizing their domestic political environment, inciting regime change, and forcibly judging the head of a country, seriously violate the purposes and principles of the United Nations Charter, seriously violate international law and the basic norms of international relations, and seriously undermine the foundations of the post-World War II international order and the civilized foundations of inter-state exchanges. Both sides firmly oppose and strongly condemn these actions and point out that the main reason for the current instability of the Eurasian continent is external disruptive interference.

China and Russia have further strengthened cooperation in all fields and will jointly respond to the plans and actions of certain nuclear-armed countries and their allies to deploy land-based medium- and short-range missiles abroad.
 
AZ_HighCountry said:
At the end of WWII in Europe, Germany still possessed a massive number of men under arms. As did the Japanese in the Pacific (in China and SE Asia).

What the Allies did was break their will to fight. I'm not yet convinced we've broken Iran's will to fight.

If we've learned anything since our (the US) war in Vietnam, the enemy doesn't necessarily need to defeat us militarily on the battlefield. They can simply wait us out. The words of Ho Chi Minh should have served as a stark warning. Especially when facing an Asian adversary.

Iran knows full well this is an election year in the US. One where the incumbent President at the moment is seeing an increase in unpopularity. One that is based on what the people see, not which the President is telling them.

Raptor has said repeatedly "it's only another $20 at the pump". It may be nothing to him but to many, that $20 could be the difference between food on the table or not. Then there is the entire downstream economy that is fueled by energy. All of those costs are going up and the consumer is seeing it. It will only get worse in the fall.

Raptor loves his lagging indicators on how great the economy was. Leading indicators are painting a different story.

As long as Iran can stall for time, it will benefit them in the end. Anyone who thinks they've not been using the past 6 weeks to rebuild is deluding themselves.
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I am very glad to see that there are rational people in the United States. Unfortunately, there are too few rational people in the U.S. government.

No rational person should cheer for war, because war makes ordinary people pay the price, and 99.999999% of people in this world are ordinary people.

I really like this sentence: Politics is the game of the ruling class, and war is the continuation of politics. After a war occurs, politicians provide weapons, the rich provide food, and the poor provide children. When the war ends, politicians gain political capital and shake hands while talking about peace, the rich gain huge profits, and the poor search for the graves of their children. For ordinary people, war is an ordinary person's son killing another ordinary person's son. They have no hatred toward each other, but someone tells them, 'That is your enemy.'
 
F-22Raptor said:
The US has made its mistakes in the past and we acknowledge it, but we don’t deliberately target civilians.

Iran murders tens of thousands of its own civilians, targets 1,000 civilian targets during the war and this forum barely bats an eye. You guys care more about “owning the US” than any murdered Iranian. Thats the reality
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The problem is that USA , because of her own rhetorics about human rights and democracy , has set the moral bar very high for herself and is judged by that bar ....otoh other countries can get away with heinous crimes cause they have set the bar very low for themselves.
 
AZ_HighCountry said:
Really now? The US does not hit civilian sites? The US owns mistakes?

History lesson time:

- 1968 - My Lai massacre.
- 2004 - Pat Tillman killed in a "friendly fire" incident. A coworker of my was in Tillman's outfit and was there the day he was murdered. And I call it murder. The only reason the Pentagon told the truth was because it was leaked by other Rangers who were there. Local commanders did everything they could to cover it up.
- 1944-45 - indiscriminate fire bombing of Tokyo
- 1945 - fire bombing of Dresden. Dresden had no military industry. The raid was simply to induce terror.
- fall 1944 - I have to look it up again; US forces destroyed a French village that they knew the Germans had already withdrawn from.

I could probably list more but why? Everyone gets the picture.
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During World War II, the United States bombing of Japan was a just act, and the Japanese public extremely supported militarism.

At that time, the actions of Japanese militarism were seriously inhumane. George Herbert Walker Bush carried out missions together with his comrades, during which 8 American pilots were captured by Japan, and Japan then directly consumed these American pilots. This incident was confirmed in military trials after the war.

In November 1944, Japan paraded, beat, and eventually burned three captured American pilots to death in a crematorium.

In retaliation, in December 1944, the U.S. military bombed Chinese cities occupied by Japan, dropping 500 tons of incendiary bombs and 1,000 tons of conventional bombs. This air raid caused 40,000 Chinese civilian deaths.
 
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@Meengla
@AZ_HighCountry
@Oscar

25 mins required
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Think tanks are almost always wrong in their analysis ... well , it's their bread and butter and they have to come up with some gobbledegook to earn it....Iran will never be allowed control over the Hormuz , no country in the world including Pakistan will allow it ...Iran is thoroughly emasculated , it has no choice but to sign up for peace agreement....no nukes , no proxies and end of Hezbollah...
Period , no ifs and buts.
 
mythbuster said:
Think tanks are almost always wrong in their analysis ... well , it's their bread and butter and they have to come up with some gobbledegook to earn it....Iran will never be allowed control over the Hormuz , no country in the world including Pakistan will allow it ...Iran is thoroughly emasculated , it has no choice but to sign up for peace agreement....no nukes , no proxies and end of Hezbollah...
Period , no ifs and buts.
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You're sounding like a neo-con think tankie which BTW Robert kagan is
 
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