Balochistan - Is there a solution?

also on iran i feel like isi has completely given up on killing bla guys in iran

used to get one or two hvts in iran but there has been nothing for months

A comprehensive thread on killing of bla/blf terrorists in iran

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All are middle to lower tier terrorists. Big fishes like DAN are living comfortably in iran for tears now

Byt yeah let's do mediation first. After all Donald Trump appreciates us for that which is like a medal for Pakistani rulers
 
We often love giving example of american mexico border to hide our incompetence and failures

Americans also killed dozens and dozens of al qaida and other terrorist organization leaders in at least half a dozen countries using drones. We don't take this as example

Only excuse is always American mexico border

Americans can do that stuff because at the end of the day, they can just get up and leave. Their cities are not nearby to face the brunt of retribution from the many children of the leaders they kill.

Hamara case aur hay. The threat of BLA/TTP is intermixed with our porous border and the almost state-sanctioned level of smuggling. Leave arms and drugs aside, even NCP Ferraris and McLarens have managed to cross.

Pakistan is in no position to strong arm Iran or Afghanistan on anything. The small amount of bombing we did on Kabul pales in comparison to what they are used to with 18 years of USAF/USN overwatch. Iran tou waise hi chordo.

That leaves your only option to be sealing the border yourself. Do whatever it takes in terms of budget and manpower.
 
That leaves your only option to be sealing the border yourself. Do whatever it takes in terms of budget and manpower.
sealing the border without kinetic ops in afghanistan just delays the problem and eventually someone will cross and we will have a mass casualty event ( because you will never have 100 percent sealed border )

both have to be done together
first close the border and clean kpk /bln
then kinetic ops in afghanistan , mirroring israels campaign in lebanon ( without the civilian casualties ofc )

only way
 
Americans can do that stuff because at the end of the day, they can just get up and leave. Their cities are not nearby to face the brunt of retribution from the many children of the leaders they kill.

Hamara case aur hay. The threat of BLA/TTP is intermixed with our porous border and the almost state-sanctioned level of smuggling. Leave arms and drugs aside, even NCP Ferraris and McLarens have managed to cross.

Pakistan is in no position to strong arm Iran or Afghanistan on anything. The small amount of bombing we did on Kabul pales in comparison to what they are used to with 18 years of USAF/USN overwatch. Iran tou waise hi chordo.

That leaves your only option to be sealing the border yourself. Do whatever it takes in terms of budget and manpower.


So what exactly are you getting by not bombing terrorists and their leadership in iran and Afghanistan?

Your cities are still getting bombed. Your people are dying. Your soldiers are dying. Your policemen are dying. Your whole state existence is under threat. Your very existence is under threat. People are losing confidence in your state

But no. We can't drone bashirzeb and noor wali in Afghanistan. Supa puwa Afghanistan ko bura lag jaye ga. Can't take out dr allah nazar in iran either even though we are champions of mediation who are trying our best to save iran from american bombs. Iran ko bhi bura lag jaye ga

To bhai just surrender your two provinces and move on if you can't force two pariah shitholes to stop supporting terrorists against you. Yeh kia drama laga k rakha hai atomic power aur strong military ka,

Kiyun lai rahai ho j35 aur hangor submarines? Just stop this drama and spend this money on development of punjab if nothing else. Hum karachi walai to waisai bhi ppp k under kuttai wali guzar rahai hain. At least stop wasting money and use it for punjab
 
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so have we take out any BLA leaders since the last attack? its kinda weird that we have failed to take out BLA/TTP leadership, even when we were at a full scale war with Afghanistan.
 
So as I gauge the responses it seems that many here have settled on either dehumanizing the Baloch or completely dismissing the overall organism that is the Pakistani state.

Where in reality, perhaps there is a more human explanation.

Alright - patri se utar time.

Because here is what the conflict data framing consistently misses:

The Army officer who signs off on another operation in Turbat is not a cartoon villain. He is, in all likelihood, a man from Rawalpindi or Lahore who genuinely believes he is holding a country together with his bare hands. He has inherited a doctrine, a budget, a set of loyalties, and critically a fear.

Not the theatrical fear of press statements. The quiet, structural fear of a man who knows, in the part of his mind where honest thoughts live, that the edifice he is defending is more fragile than anything he will ever say aloud.

This is the thing the institutional analysis gets right mechanically but wrong humanly: the paralysis is not primarily strategic. It is existential.
I had
to
find this quote through search to get my thoughts here right but Nietzsche said that "the higher we soar, the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly."

Take that 180 and apply it to the establishment - the higher the claim of indispensability, the more catastrophic the exposure of dispensability becomes.

An army that admits Balochistan is a political problem, not a security problem, has implicitly admitted that two decades of its own primacy has been the cause, not the cure. That is not an admission any institution makes voluntarily. It would require a form of collective courage that no incentive structure in Rawalpindi currently rewards. If you doubt it see the history on those MANY officers who did call it out and found themselves in certain unfavorable situations.

Then we need to start admitting that one villain isn't enough here - THIS is the analytical error that the international press, the think-tank circuit, and frankly most Pakistani liberal or PTI(or whichever party is aggrieved in motion) supporter commentary makes with exhausting consistency which is reducing the establishment to the military.

The establishment is a social formation. It is the senior civil bureaucracy, the DMG cadre, the federal secretaries who have administered the same extractive architecture since Partition and who understand, with crystalline clarity, that their relevance depends on federal supremacy over provincial resources. It is the superior judiciary, which has intervened to protect military prerogatives in moment after moment of constitutional stress, not because judges were ordered to, but because the social world of a senior Pakistani judge and a corps commander are, quite literally, the same dinner parties, the same Defence Housing Authority addresses, the same school alumni networks.

It is the Lahore-Karachi corporate class that has built its supply chains, its import licenses, its real estate empires on the assumption of federal policy stability that means they rely on the assumption that Islamabad retains unilateral authority over the economic rules of the game. It is the media barons who self-censor not because every call comes from ISPR, but because the advertisers, the distribution networks, and the regulatory licenses are all ultimately controlled by the same ecosystem.

Yet - we are all confusing the issue by focusing on the military because it is the enforcement arm.

Where is your biggest example?
Sindh is not at war. It has no BLA. Its rivers don't run through territory that China needs for a corridor. And yet by nearly every human development metric such as child stunting, female literacy, access to clean water, infant mortality - rural Sindh compares less favorably with parts of sub Saharan Africa than with the Lahore that anchors Pakistan's self-image as a rising middle-income country.

The Indus Waters system, the federal divisible pool formula, the port economics of Karachi which IS the city that generates somewhere between 40 to 60 percent of Pakistan's tax revenue and receives perhaps a quarter of that back in federal transfers — all of this is not policy failure.
It is policy success, evaluated from the perspective of those the policy actually serves.

Now a little more bitter point which unless looked at from a systems perspective you will see as usual Punjab bashing... but take a little patience if you read this far already...

The Army is demographically Punjabi at its officer corps in disproportionate measure.
The civil bureaucracy's most powerful cadres are disproportionately recruited from Punjab's urban centers.

The federal legislature's electoral arithmetic makes Punjab the kingmaker in every coalition.

This is not conspiracy.

It is the compound interest of structural advantage in which each generation of institutional dominance making the next generation slightly more entrenched, slightly more naturalized, until it stops looking like a political arrangement and starts looking as normal as the weather.

BUT... what seems to be forgotten in this Anti-Punjab sentiment is that the Punjab that benefits from this arrangement is not all of Punjab. It is the landed elite of central Punjab, the industrial families of Faisalabad and Sialkot, the garrison towns. The small farmer in Rahim Yar Khan, the daily wage laborer in Bahawalpur - they are Punjabi in name and they absorb the cultural prestige of the dominant province, but the economic architecture extracts from them with only marginally less efficiency than it extracts from the Sindhi haris or the Baloch counterparts.

Which is why even those pushing against one ethnicity or peoples cannot really stand behind a "what happens next" to their extremes in solution BECAUSE the establishment, in this reading, is not an ethnic project. It is a class project wearing ethnic and institutional clothing.

And that distinction matters enormously for understanding why reform remains so structurally difficult because the coalition sustaining the status quo is not actually Punjab versus everyone else. READ THAT AGAIN.

It is a thin layer of every province's elite, networked into the federal apparatus, against the broad civilian populations of all four provinces simultaneously.

The Baloch militant blowing up a bridge in Mastung and the Sindhi farmer watching his canal water diverted upstream and the Punjabi landworker in Multan seeing his farms Mango trees cut for DHA are not, in any structurally honest analysis, enemies. They simply haven't had the institutional conditions to recognize that yet.

And now here is the truth:

Pakistan's middle class in Lahore, in Karachi, in Hyderabad, in Quetta, in Peshawar — is not small. It is not uneducated. It is not, in the privacy of its drawing rooms and its whatsapp groups, uninformed. It knows, with reasonable granularity, what the enforced disappearances are. It knows what the canal politics of Sindh produce. It knows that the DHA housing scheme it aspires to is built on land acquisition mechanisms that would not survive a single honest court challenge. It knows that CPEC's benefit distribution is not a misunderstanding but a design.

BUT it has, collectively and consistently, chosen to know these things privately while performing loyalty publicly.

And that calculation which is repeated across millions of middle-class households, every day, in every province — is the establishment's most important structural asset. More important than any military operation. More durable than any IMF program condition. More effective than any media restriction.

"In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs, it is the rule."
The establishment is counting on that. It has always been counting on that.

The bridges will keep blowing up until it can no longer count on it.
 
@Oscar sb,

Amazing analysis, sir. Thank you very much. Just one point if I may make:

Karachi which IS the city that generates somewhere between 60 to 70 percent of Pakistan's tax revenue

Karachi collects, not generates, 60-70% of Pakistan's tax revenue. Subtle difference, but important all the same. Having said that there is no reason to doubt that it receives less funding than it should rightfully.

Regards

PS: Btw, have heard this argument about Bombay, too.
 
Yes fair and you are right - to an extent but a significant and genuinely enormous portion of that revenue is generated in Karachi. Ive corrected it in the post.

You will see that argument from Islamabad or Lahore on the figure which is fine as the nuance but even if the real real collection number sits closer to 45-55% and true economic generation is probably somewhere in the 35-45% range ( because a mill in Faisalabad could have its offices in Karachi) it is still enormous for one city.

Still disproportionately underfunded relative to contribution.

However, Bombay is a little unfair in comparison BECAUSE Maharashtra can and does politically fight Delhi on this and sometimes wins because India's federal structure, for all its flaws, has functioning constitutional mechanisms for states to contest transfer formulas.
Pakistan simply has them on paper and smiles.
@Oscar sb,

Amazing analysis, sir. Thank you very much. Just one point if I may make:

Karachi which IS the city that generates somewhere between 60 to 70 percent of Pakistan's tax revenue

Karachi collects, not generates, 60-70% of Pakistan's tax revenue. Subtle difference, but important all the same. Having said that there is no reason to doubt that it receives less funding than it should rightfully.

Regards

PS: Btw, have heard this argument about Bombay, too.
 
So I also want to address the "massive operation" type of ideals being thrown about here - so people think rather than just shoot frustration from the hip so to say.

The Khawaja said it this February - Balochistan needs MASSIVE forces to control it.

Lets put that into your perspective:

Pakistan's total active military strength sits at approximately 735,000 personnel across all three services, with an additional 585,000 in paramilitary forces. Of that active force, an estimated 60 to 70 percent is already committed to the eastern border facing India.
Agreed?

Current estimates put the Balochistan and western frontier combined commitment at roughly 60,000 to 80,000 troops which is already representing 10 to 12 percent of total force strength.

Then there is Afghanistan and you can figure numbers there - these troops need to be housed, clothed, fed, logistics, ammo, fuel, officers with their higher costs of maintenance because you need to manage troops and so on.

In case you are wondering - THERE IS NO large idle reserve sitting in cantonment waiting for a Balochistan surge order. The army that would surge is the same army already stretched across three simultaneous operational commitments.

Moving a significant portion of eastern border deployments westward into Balochistan even temporarily, even partially - is not a security calculation. It is an existential gamble against a mortal adversary which is now willing to gamble nuclear and that would notice the redeployment within days and adjust its own posture accordingly.

GHQ understands this. Which is why the surge announcement and the surge execution have never coincided in twenty years.
Then, After debt servicing consumes over 45 percent of the total federal budget, defence is already the second largest expenditure at 14.51 percent of federal spending.

Not to mention Pakistan is simultaneously under IMF program constraints that impose hard fiscal deficit ceilings.

A genuine surge which involves construction of forward operating bases across 347,000 square kilometers of hostile terrain, sustained logistics in a province whose road and bridge infrastructure the BLA is actively demolishing, additional manpower allowances, equipment, fuel, medical evacuation would conservatively require an additional $3 to $5 billion annually above current Balochistan allocations. Against a total defence budget of $9 billion already stretched to cover eastern deterrence, a Chinese arms package, and three other operational theaters.

Which dollar trees in your neighborhood backyards are you all intending to shake??

Every serious surge in comparable terrain has required population control measures that generate new insurgents faster than operations eliminate existing ones. Pakistan's enforced disappearances in Balochistan already run to an estimated 5,000 to 8,000 cases under managed operations.

A genuine surge operating at scale, in remote terrain, without media access, against an organization that has deliberately embedded within civilian infrastructure — would produce a documented atrocity record that Islamabad cannot manage the way it has managed the current one.

The BLA in 2026 is not the BLA of 2006. It has communications infrastructure, international diaspora networks, and demonstrated capability to document and broadcast operational incidents.

The Sri Lankan model, which is referenced here casually and elsewhere, cost Colombo a decade of international isolation and an active UN war crimes process. Pakistan, already fragile on the FATF watch cycle and dependent on IMF goodwill, does not have Colombo's margin for that exposure.

So now here is the real problem - and I still want to keep it focused on Balochistan but it is important you understand this because MANY MANY military and bureucracy folks do already:

The Pakistani military officer let's say a Brigadier in his mid-fifties, a corps commander's staff, educated at Kakul, perhaps a year at the National Defence University in Washington or Islamabad, children in good schools, a plot in a DHA scheme that represents the single most significant asset his family will ever own.. is not primarily a villain in this story.

I hate repeating myself but please - he was born next door - he is YOU.

He is a man who made a series of individually rational decisions inside a system that rewarded each one, and who now finds himself structurally incapable of making the decision the system actually needs.

He joined because the military offered upward mobility, dignity, and institutional belonging in a country where those things are scarce and unevenly distributed. He advanced because he was competent within the framework his institution valued. He absorbed, over three decades, a strategic doctrine:

Which is?
India as existential threat, Balochistan as externally manipulated insurgency, the military as the only institution capable of holding the state together

HE IS not brainwashed, but because that doctrine was coherent within the information environment he inhabited. His peers believed it. His mentors built careers on it. The doctrine produced promotions, budgets, and social legitimacy. Why would a rational human being question it?

Pakistan and India have fought four wars. They remain in unresolved territorial dispute over Kashmir. India's defence budget is approximately eight to nine times Pakistan's in absolute terms and continues to grow. From inside GHQ, the threat is not manufactured.

The most honest starting point is this: the Indian threat to Pakistan is real.

BUT It is also institutionally inflated.

And the gap between those two truths is where Pakistan's Balochistan paralysis lives.

Since Im bouncing ideas and rambling - lets keep going... if you were patient enough so far..
Pakistan is not India's existential concern the way China is. But it is far from a tertiary irritant that India passively tolerates. It is an active, managed, and in certain respects deliberately cultivated strategic variable — and the current Indian leadership has been more explicit about this than any of its predecessors.

A state for which Pakistan is a pure secondary concern does not have its head of government publicly embrace the separatist grievance of Pakistan's most volatile province. That is the behavior of a state that has decided Pakistan's internal fragmentation is a usable asset to be invoked, calibrated, and managed according to the temperature of bilateral relations.

A state that has made Pakistan's sustained pressure a domestic political product — one that Modi's BJP deploys with calculated consistency to consolidate Hindu nationalist electoral coalitions. The Pakistan threat is real and it is domestically useful to the current Indian government in ways that create structural incentives for its perpetuation.

This is not about India - but is important to understand for Balochistan and the Indian support.

At the grand strategic level where India projects itself to Washington, Brussels, and the UN as a rising responsible power, a Quad partner, a credible alternative to China's Belt and Road in the Global South...India has Pakistan framed as a managed complexity. A terrorism problem. A regional irritant that mature statesmanship contains rather than inflames. etc.

At the conventional military level in doctrine, force structure, Cold Start, forward deployment, surgical strike capability, operational planning there is no doubt that Pakistan is a co-equal and in some respects primary concern, because it is the adversary against which India's conventional doctrine has actually been operationalized, tested, and refined.

This is now even more clear at the political and domestic level with BJP electoral strategy, Modi's Balochistan rhetoric, the information warfare architecture the NDU Journal documents that Pakistan is not secondary at all. It is the primary organizing adversary of Indian domestic political production under the current government.

India is not running a Pakistan strategy from a position of comfortable strategic distance. It is running one from a position of genuine, documented, multi-register threat perception... which means its calibrated ambiguity on Balochistan, its rhetorical exploitation of Baloch grievance, and its management of the India-Pakistan pressure architecture are not the casual moves of a state for which Pakistan barely registers.

They are the careful moves of a state that takes Pakistan seriously enough as a threat to manage it and MORE IMPORTANTLY seriously enough as a domestic political instrument to never fully resolve it.

So - please dispute if you do - but this massive operational surge cannot be executed without producing an atrocity record that destroys Pakistan's IMF relationship, FATF standing, and whatever remains of its international legitimacy.

Which means the establishment is caught in a trap of its own diplomatic construction: too internationally embedded to conduct the operation the hard liners demand, too institutionally committed to the security first framework to pursue the political settlement that would make the operation unnecessary.

The bridges keep blowing up in the space between those two impossibilities.
 
A comprehensive thread on killing of bla/blf terrorists in iran

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All are middle to lower tier terrorists. Big fishes like DAN are living comfortably in iran for tears now

Byt yeah let's do mediation first. After all Donald Trump appreciates us for that which is like a medal for Pakistani rulers

Because unless you are honest about why you cannot critique the mediation just like that...

Why are the leaders still alive? Because penetrating Iranian state protection to hit assets they’ve deliberately sheltered requires an intelligence infrastructure in deep signals collection, embedded human networks, precision delivery which Pakistan simply hasn't built and cannot afford on an IMF allowance.

You can track a low-tier coordinator with crude signals and a local informant in terrain you know. But Israel's targeted killing machine works because they spent fifty years and massive chunks of their GDP building it.

You don't have that, and pretending you do is delusional.

The Trump favorite moniker is as useless in the overall systems of things as is some 250lb person holding off on their last bite of an entire ice cream dub.

If anything - you have created greater problems by doing so with that strike in Iran after they tried to poke you. BLA did the Hamas or FARC ... flatter organizational structures, more compartmentalized cell networks, faster leadership replacement pipelines, and stronger operational security protocols.

In the most operationally precise sense, you are paying the costs of a targeted killing program without capturing its strategic benefits because the targets you can reach are not the targets whose elimination would change the conflict's structural trajectory.
 
Why don't we strike nimroz province of Afghanistan

Because we are clowns, that's why

There is no point in massive discussions about the nature of this and history of this and how we try to economically and politically entice these scum bags

You need to declare war, if they hit us then we hit 10 times harder in nimroz and other places

Our constant pussey footing around against a enemy that doesn't even consider themselves Pakistani is shameful
 
Because unless you are honest about why you cannot critique the mediation just like that...

Why are the leaders still alive? Because penetrating Iranian state protection to hit assets they’ve deliberately sheltered requires an intelligence infrastructure in deep signals collection, embedded human networks, precision delivery which Pakistan simply hasn't built and cannot afford on an IMF allowance.

You can track a low-tier coordinator with crude signals and a local informant in terrain you know. But Israel's targeted killing machine works because they spent fifty years and massive chunks of their GDP building it.

You don't have that, and pretending you do is delusional.

The Trump favorite moniker is as useless in the overall systems of things as is some 250lb person holding off on their last bite of an entire ice cream dub.

If anything - you have created greater problems by doing so with that strike in Iran after they tried to poke you. BLA did the Hamas or FARC ... flatter organizational structures, more compartmentalized cell networks, faster leadership replacement pipelines, and stronger operational security protocols.

In the most operationally precise sense, you are paying the costs of a targeted killing program without capturing its strategic benefits because the targets you can reach are not the targets whose elimination would change the conflict's structural trajectory.

Whatever

The thing is you have to cut oxygen supply from iran and Afghanistan or forget about kpk and balochistan

It is as simple as that. It is a question of survival now. Lets see how long this incometent state would drag its foot on this matter of survival. My hopes aren't high though
 
Whatever

The thing is you have to cut oxygen supply from iran and Afghanistan or forget about kpk and balochistan

It is as simple as that. It is a question of survival now. Lets see how long this incometent state would drag its foot on this matter of survival. My hopes aren't high though
Its absolutely shocking how still a large part of our population; even supposedly knowledgeable people are oblivious to the fact that Iran and Afghanistan are hostile states to Pakistan with competing interests.
 
Pakistan's total active military strength sits at approximately 735,000 personnel across all three services, with an additional 585,000 in paramilitary forces. Of that active force, an estimated 60 to 70 percent is already committed to the eastern border facing India.
Agreed?

Current estimates put the Balochistan and western frontier combined commitment at roughly 60,000 to 80,000 troops which is already representing 10 to 12 percent of total force strength.

Then there is Afghanistan and you can figure numbers there - these troops need to be housed, clothed, fed, logistics, ammo, fuel, officers with their higher costs of maintenance because you need to manage troops and so on.

In case you are wondering - THERE IS NO large idle reserve sitting in cantonment waiting for a Balochistan surge order. The army that would surge is the same army already stretched across three simultaneous operational commitments.

Moving a significant portion of eastern border deployments westward into Balochistan even temporarily, even partially - is not a security calculation. It is an existential gamble against a mortal adversary which is now willing to gamble nuclear and that would notice the redeployment within days and adjust its own posture accordingly.

Given the above, it would make great geopolitical sense to work towards confidence building measures and better relations with an aim to eliminate this perceived existential threat.

But is that even possible?

The dividends for the population itself would be huge. At least, it is a nice dream.
 

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