JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[RealNapster]

Fixing Pakistani economy is not a rocket science, it will take few people who are willing to do what it takes. But Establishment has different plans, they want to keep going back to IMF until external loans reaches $500 billion dollars.

Yet it's taking us more then 78 years. Are we looking at it on the human evolution scale because 78 years are not a longer time only if you look at it on evolution scale. Otherwise it's a lot of time to give to something and if you still fails. Then maybe it's not meant to be.

 

[Fatman17]

JH-7 and JF-17

 

[Reichmarshal]

PAF is still operating legacy ac like the mirages n the f7.....n some posters here are telling us that PAF plans to retire Block 1 jf17.
This when multiple senior posters have repeatedly stated that block 1 will be made into block 2 plus...with the integration of a new IESA radar, EW, and weapons suite in addition to other upgrades.

 

[Yasser76]

PAF is still operating legacy ac like the mirages n the f7.....n some posters here are telling us that PAF plans to retire Block 1 jf17.
This when multiple senior posters have repeatedly stated that block 1 will be made into block 2 plus...with the integration of a new IESA radar, EW, and weapons suite in addition to other upgrades.

Most rare sentence you will fond on PDF is "I do not know for sure"

Most make out they have access to all the facts, some even imply insider knowledge on almost all developments whilst being based in the US "As I was told on the phone".

You can make your own mind up

 

[Michael]

PAF is still operating legacy ac like the mirages n the f7.....n some posters here are telling us that PAF plans to retire Block 1 jf17.
This when multiple senior posters have repeatedly stated that block 1 will be made into block 2 plus...with the integration of a new IESA radar, EW, and weapons suite in addition to other upgrades.

I fully understand the feelings and high expectations our Pakistani friends have for the JF-17 fighter jet.

But, we must return to reality. The potential of the JF-17 platform has been almost completely exhausted. Its lifespan is nearing its end.

China, the other owner of the JF-17 brand, has little interest in continuing its development. Therefore, if Pakistan wants to continue developing the JF-17 brand, it needs a very robust and feasible solution. This is currently the biggest challenge.

 

[Yasser76]

I fully understand the feelings and high expectations our Pakistani friends have for the JF-17 fighter jet.

But, we must return to reality. The potential of the JF-17 platform has been almost completely exhausted. Its lifespan is nearing its end.

China, the other owner of the JF-17 brand, has little interest in continuing its development. Therefore, if Pakistan wants to continue developing the JF-17 brand, it needs a very robust and feasible solution. This is currently the biggest challenge.

Yes, potential of airframe is maxxed out I feel, but not potential of new sales for countries that may find J-10C/J-35 too high end.

Two are different things

 

[Oscar]

PAF is still operating legacy ac like the mirages n the f7.....n some posters here are telling us that PAF plans to retire Block 1 jf17.
This when multiple senior posters have repeatedly stated that block 1 will be made into block 2 plus...with the integration of a new IESA radar, EW, and weapons suite in addition to other upgrades.

Earlier block-1s are going the way of F-7s as lift and standby frames. There were lessons learned later that those airframes are simply not capable of supporting without investment that should only be done if it is a hobson’s choice.

 

[Fatman17]

I think there should be one standard block for JF-17s which is block lll. PAF doesn't have the financial capability to upgrade aircraft like the US does. They may have the capability but without the money it's a waste of time and effort. Hst block ll can be upgraded to block lll which would mean a 100 block lll aircraft.
Priority is being given to induct additional J-10CE aircraft.

Possible J-10CE seen in China. No Serial No.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Earlier block-1s are going the way of F-7s as lift and standby frames. There were lessons learned later that those airframes are simply not capable of supporting without investment that should only be done if it is a hobson’s choice.

well u wont belive wt they have instore for the block 1.

ALL ur and others' suggestions are fine, but everyone seems to overlook one huge flaw in the argument n that is finances.
When you can achieve 80-90 % of the capability by investing less than 10 mil $ per ac, then why spend 60 -80 mil $ with minimal capability enhancement?
All this when PAF has to replace around 100 legacy 3rd-gen AC.
Even for some reason, let's say PAF does not upgrade the block 1, then still in its current form, it runs circles around 80% of the iaf fleet.

All in all block 1 is the least of our worries; we have other fish to fry

 

[Reichmarshal]

Forget the block 1, the evolution of the mirage to the next level is mind-boggling

 

[Reichmarshal]

I fully understand the feelings and high expectations our Pakistani friends have for the JF-17 fighter jet.

But, we must return to reality. The potential of the JF-17 platform has been almost completely exhausted. Its lifespan is nearing its end.

China, the other owner of the JF-17 brand, has little interest in continuing its development. Therefore, if Pakistan wants to continue developing the JF-17 brand, it needs a very robust and feasible solution. This is currently the biggest challenge.

All sounds great, but like the rest, uve over looked the elephant in the room ie financies.
Even with the current financial mess, we have done pretty well, but it has its limits n we don't need to ta take things to the breaking point.
baki if money were not an issue, then PAF would have been looking to induct the spaceship Enterprise, and our Chinese friends would have wanting us to let them in on out tech of warp drive n such.

 

[Fatman17]

All sounds great, but like the rest, uve over looked the elephant in the room ie financies.
Even with the current financial mess, we have done pretty well, but it has its limits n we don't need to ta take things to the breaking point.
baki if money were not an issue, then PAF would have been looking to induct the spaceship Enterprise, and our Chinese friends would have wanting us to let them in on out tech of warp drive n such.

 

[Michael]

All sounds great, but like the rest, uve over looked the elephant in the room ie financies.
Even with the current financial mess, we have done pretty well, but it has its limits n we don't need to ta take things to the breaking point.
baki if money were not an issue, then PAF would have been looking to induct the spaceship Enterprise, and our Chinese friends would have wanting us to let them in on out tech of warp drive n such.

When faced with intractable contradictions and conflicts, Chinese people often use the saying, "不换思想就换人."

A literal translation of this sentence would be: "If you don't change your mindset, change the person."
But this does not fully express the meaning of the sentence.

My English isn't very good, so it's difficult for me to give you an accurate translation of that sentence. When all existing thought frameworks fail to provide a solution to a problem, you need to think outside the box to find a way out. If you can't think outside the box, then find someone else to solve the problem.

In short, regarding the financial issues you mentioned, in our view, financial problems are never problems if we are determined enough.

 

[Deino]

I think there should be one standard block for JF-17s which is block lll. PAF doesn't have the financial capability to upgrade aircraft like the US does. They may have the capability but without the money it's a waste of time and effort. Hst block ll can be upgraded to block lll which would mean a 100 block lll aircraft.
Priority is being given to induct additional J-10CE aircraft.
View attachment 200155
Possible J-10CE seen in China. No Serial No.

Sorry my friend, but why posting this again? We had loooooooooooong discussions about it a few weeks ago with the clear conclusion these are NOT new aircraft NOR a new delivery and even lesser a new unit!

Do you really want to start this mess all over again??

 

[Pakistan First]

But, we must return to reality. The potential of the JF-17 platform has been almost completely exhausted. Its lifespan is nearing its end.

China, the other owner of the JF-17 brand, has little interest in continuing its development. Therefore, if Pakistan wants to continue developing the JF-17 brand, it needs a very robust and feasible solution. This is currently the biggest challenge.

PAF and PAC don't agree with your comments even a bit. As mentioned with absolute clarity by PAF Spokesperson that Pakistan will be adding additional "upgraded JF-17s" along with J-10CE. There's no more discussion needed for potential exhausted or lifespan nearing its end. We kept Mirages for over 60 years. We added F-7 PGs not very long ago in 2002. We added JF-17s JUST RECENTLY in 2008 and people really think its coming to an end when PAF itself is announcing Upgraded JF-17s to be procured.


JF-17 is a backbone of the whole airforce right now. The whole eco-system, training, logistics, its local production, overhaul & maintenance facilities are most precious asset for the airforce.

Your "Analysis" as you often call your commentary as analysis, is sometimes very good when its context is all chinese. However, when its about Pakistan, you need to do Re-analysis of things from Pakistan's angle. The financial aspect which @Reichmarshal mentioned is absolutely REAL. You can't use the chinese philosphy or model at it that "financial problems" are not really a problem. In Pakistan they are the problem, with the kind of ruling elite, our approach, our way of doing things, and well its a different debate. You have to be realistic. I don't understand how you can't be realistic and ignore finances of a country.

J-10CEs & J-35s are going to be seriously expensive and these platforms will remain in modest numbers. JF-17s will remain a backbone for foreseeable future.