Indian Strategic Forces: Nuclear and Missile Facilities

[NeptunesVortex]

Two decades? And yet it's taken you until now to put nukes on them? I wonder why.

You don't need to wonder. The fundamentals are simply beyond your common grasp and it's probably best not to put too much strain on those tiny brain cells trying to understand them.

An SSBN isn't a trophy to parade around with missiles bolted on from day one. It's the final leg of a credible nuclear triad and developing one means mastering nuclear propulsion, stealth, reactor safety, quieting technologies, underwater communications, SLBM integration, crew training and C2. Sensible navies validate the platform before operationally deploying strategic weapons.

India spent decades building an indigenous ecosystem because the objective was a survivable 2nd strike capability. A delayed but reliable deterrent is infinitely more valuable than a rushed deployment that compromises stealth or safety.

A functioning SSBN force is about assured retaliation. SSBNs greatest strength is that nobody knows where it is not that it sails around with a giant signboard saying nukes onboard.

There's nothing mysterious about it. India took the hard route of building the technology stack and operational doctrine first. The fact that you think the measure of success is "why didn't they stick nukes on it earlier?" says more about your understanding of strategic deterrence than it does about the program itself.

 

[Corax]

What part of "building" you dont understand ? Its not halwa puri as Pakistanis think who never built any pinnacle of tech on their own.

BTW we deployed "12" first time. Nukes were already deployed in smaller number when INS Arihant was on 2018 Patrol. India declared completion of N-Triad that day.

Sure, sure, it's not as if you never got any help from the russians was it? But, as I've mentioned before, your triad does little for the escalation ladder, as shown last May.

 

[Corax]

You don't need to wonder. The fundamentals are simply beyond your common grasp and it's probably best not to put too much strain on those tiny brain cells trying to understand them.

An SSBN isn't a trophy to parade around with missiles bolted on from day one. It's the final leg of a credible nuclear triad and developing one means mastering nuclear propulsion, stealth, reactor safety, quieting technologies, underwater communications, SLBM integration, crew training and C2. Sensible navies validate the platform before operationally deploying strategic weapons.

India spent decades building an indigenous ecosystem because the objective was a survivable 2nd strike capability. A delayed but reliable deterrent is infinitely more valuable than a rushed deployment that compromises stealth or safety.

A functioning SSBN force is about assured retaliation. SSBNs greatest strength is that nobody knows where it is not that it sails around with a giant signboard saying nukes onboard.

There's nothing mysterious about it. India took the hard route of building the technology stack and operational doctrine first. The fact that you think the measure of success is "why didn't they stick nukes on it earlier?" says more about your understanding of strategic deterrence than it does about the program itself.

"Indigenous" you say?

https://casi.sas.upenn.edu/iit/yjoshi

As the indigenous effort hit a technological bump by late 1970s, the Indian government turned to Moscow for assistance. In the early 1980s, Moscow agreed to help India’s indigenous nuclear submarine program

https://www.rbth.com/blogs/stranger_than_fiction/2015/10/26/arihant-how-rusia-helped-deliver-indias-baby-boomer_533849

“But the project was still not getting anywhere,” says V. Koithara in the book Managing India’s Nuclear Forces. “India then sought and got much more substantial Russian help than had been envisaged earlier. The construction of the submarine’s hull began in 1998, and a basically Russian-designed 83 megawatt pressurised-water reactor was fitted in the hull nine years later.”

The trouble with you indians is you've been high on cow kool aid for too long, and any bollywood bs will do as the truth.

 

[NeptunesVortex]

Sure, sure, it's not as if you never got

"Indigenous" you say?

https://casi.sas.upenn.edu/iit/yjoshi




https://www.rbth.com/blogs/stranger_than_fiction/2015/10/26/arihant-how-rusia-helped-deliver-indias-baby-boomer_533849



The trouble with you indians is you've been high on cow kool aid for too long, and any bollywood bs will do as the truth.

any help from the russians was it? But, as I've mentioned before, your triad does little for the escalation ladder, as shown last May.

Are you nuts or what? That's not even an answer to his comment. You jumped from SSBN development timelines to some vague escalation ladder because you couldn't address the fundamentals.

And what escalation ladder are you talking about? A 4 day confrontation where Pakistan got wrapped up in roughly 88 hours? An SSBN purpose is strategic deterrence and ensuring a survivable 2nd strike capability in the event of a nuclear exchange.

As for the Russian angle, well every major naval power has learned from someone else. The US borrowed heavily from British experience, China from Soviet and foreign technology and Pakistan's own strategic programmes have relied extensively on external assistance. Technology partnerships aren't the same as turnkey ownership.

Building an SSBN or for that matter an SSN is one of the hardest engineering challenges a country can undertake. You need decades of financial investment, specialised shipyards, nuclear infrastructure, reactor technology, metallurgy, quieting techniques, sonar integration, indigenous combat systems, secure underwater communications, SLBM integration, trained crews, maintenance facilities, and a C2 architecture that can safely manage strategic assets.

Operating these subs isn't child's play either. A strategic submarine force requires rigorous crew training, long patrol cycles, nuclear safety protocols, logistics, and an entire industrial ecosystem to keep the boats operational for decades.

India took long time to mature the platform before fully operationalising its strategic role is what responsible naval powers do.

 

[Jaeger]

How many does India need ? lol ...

China has 2.5 times the land area as India and and they are rapidly expanding their nuclear arsenal.

I guess a lot more would be needed for MAD scenario.

But I believe, India's fisrt objective would to fully arm its 6 SSBNs with ready to fire nuclear weapons.

Remember the 2 S5 SSBN under construction now have 12 launch tubes each and have bigger launch tubes to accommodate K6 MIRV missiles with 6 warhead each. That is 72 warheads on each boat.

The first 2 Arihant class can accommodate Pakistan specific 12 k15 missiles each that is 12 warheads / boat.

The next 2 Arihant has 8 launch tubes if they get earmarked to fire the China oriented non MiRV k4 missile, then that is 8 warheads / boat.

So total number warheads deployed at sea should be around 184 atleast.

 

[Corax]

Are you nuts or what? That's not even an answer to his comment. You jumped from SSBN development timelines to some vague escalation ladder because you couldn't address the fundamentals.

And what escalation ladder are you talking about? A 4 day confrontation where Pakistan got wrapped up in roughly 88 hours? An SSBN purpose is strategic deterrence and ensuring a survivable 2nd strike capability in the event of a nuclear exchange.

As for the Russian angle, well every major naval power has learned from someone else. The US borrowed heavily from British experience, China from Soviet and foreign technology and Pakistan's own strategic programmes have relied extensively on external assistance. Technology partnerships aren't the same as turnkey ownership.

Building an SSBN or for that matter an SSN is one of the hardest engineering challenges a country can undertake. You need decades of financial investment, specialised shipyards, nuclear infrastructure, reactor technology, metallurgy, quieting techniques, sonar integration, indigenous combat systems, secure underwater communications, SLBM integration, trained crews, maintenance facilities, and a C2 architecture that can safely manage strategic assets.

Operating these subs isn't child's play either. A strategic submarine force requires rigorous crew training, long patrol cycles, nuclear safety protocols, logistics, and an entire industrial ecosystem to keep the boats operational for decades.

India took long time to mature the platform before fully operationalising its strategic role is what responsible naval powers do.

So now your "indigenous" BS has changed to "borrowing" from the russians? lol as for last May, the thing you can't get through your puny dung hill of a brain is that you begged for a ceasefire after your air force received a thrashing, you claim to have called a " nuclear bluff", but it didn't stop the escalation ladder, did it, despite your much claimed "triad".

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Pakistan have 200 nukes or more. Enough to take care all of their medium/big cities. Need 500 plus to target smaller towns. If you are going to make favour to the world then make sure do it properly. Must of Pakistan live on eastern side so India will be nuking north india with it.

BTW to all delulu Indians out there. Its near impossible to intercept nuclear missile. It doesn't have to hit any precise target. It explode 2km above ground.

 

[RescueRanger]

That question is simple but very foolish. Why Pakistanis trying to make everything about themselves, lol

You are literally on a website called defencepk.com owned and operated by Pakistanis.


But that's okay, you do you champ.

 

[onlinpunit]

Yes.

Cope should always be public.

Your post proves that. !

 

[onlinpunit]

And every response made by Pakistanis on this thread has posed a simple question.

Why does India, with its overwhelming conventional might vs. Pakistan and its strategic detente with China, need to deploy its nukes and moreover, need to announce as much?

Has USA deployed its nukes to deal with pesky little Iran?

1. The Nukes are deployed on SSBNs.
2. In all countries SSBNs are the backbone of secondary nuclear strike capacity..
3. So if you have SSBNs and SLBMs capable of carrying nukes the most logical thing is to mate them.
Regarding announcements : here is an old proverb

 

[onlinpunit]

View attachment 201031

Pakistan have 200 nukes or more. Enough to take care all of their medium/big cities. Need 500 plus to target smaller towns. If you are going to make favour to the world then make sure do it properly. Must of Pakistan live on eastern side so India will be nuking north india with it.

BTW to all delulu Indians out there. Its near impossible to intercept nuclear missile. It doesn't have to hit any precise target. It explode 2km above ground.

Sure sir ! You made destruction of india so easy !

 

[Master Chief]

Who on earth will announce (or allow to be leaked) publicly a precise number of deployed sub based nukes?

I'm surprised that Indians are interpreting this announcement as anything other than ego massaging for 1.5 billion serial copers. It certainly makes no functional difference to Pakistan, who have always assumed multiple plausible worst case scenarios whenever "wargaming" against India. We assume you may strike us first. We assume rogue elements may launch against us without authorisation. We assume either subs or silos, or both, may launch the missiles. This is all par for the course in strategic warfare planning.

Beyond the above described "non-impact" on Pakistani calculations and assuming the stated figure is false, the announcement has no functional value other than ego massaging for domestic saffronists who jerk off to the very idea of mass civilian casualty events in Pakistan.

If the quoted figure is actually TRUE (and Pakistan will certainly have ways to verify it), then not even Bhagwan is going to help such a foolish nation that actually discloses exactly how many nukes are riding around on its submarines.

 

[onlinpunit]

Who on earth will announce (or allow to be leaked) publicly a precise number of deployed sub based nukes?

I'm surprised that Indians are interpreting this announcement as anything other than ego massaging for 1.5 billion serial copers. It certainly makes no functional difference to Pakistan, who have always assumed multiple plausible worst case scenarios whenever "wargaming" against India. We assume you may strike us first. We assume rogue elements may launch against us without authorisation. We assume either subs or silos, or both, may launch the missiles. This is all par for the course in strategic warfare planning.

Beyond the above described "non-impact" on Pakistani calculations and assuming the stated figure is false, the announcement has no functional value other than ego massaging for domestic saffronists who jerk off to the very idea of mass civilian casualty events in Pakistan.

If the quoted figure is actually TRUE (and Pakistan will certainly have ways to verify it), then not even Bhagwan is going to help such a foolish nation that actually discloses exactly how many nukes are riding around on its submarines.

Selecrive planned leaking of strategic assets is as age old time tested concept.
As far as deployed nuke number is concerned then SIPRI releases such data every month. It's an open secret.

 

[Nimble]

After a first strike on your assets , you won't be able to give a " devastating" response with just 190 missiles

As if India is as small as Israel or Singapore and have kept her all assets at a single place so enemy can come and easily destroy everything in one go.....

Even Israel despite of being so small, Iran with its massive missile stockpile unable to damage Isreal's nuclear capacity and here you are talking about destroying all assets in a first strike of a country that is like small continent size in itself....

 

[Jaeger]

After a first strike on your assets , you won't be able to give a " devastating" response with just 190 missiles

You have no missile defense, or credible sea based second strike capability.(The jugaad of firing a tactical nuke via a submarine's torpedo tube does not count as credible second strike capability. )

Every single nuclear weapon that India fires weather from land or sea will get through and destroy a Pakistani city.

You are claiming with 190 nuclear weapons and 4 SSBNs currently in the water, which are capable of carrying 72 Nucler armed Pakistan specific k15 missiles, India does not have credible second strike capability.

Now imagine what if India fires first, what kind if response would you able to give considering you have lesser number of Nuclear weapons many of which are tactical low yield weapons. India has 4 times the land area and an active missile defence shield protecting its major cities.