Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[Flotilla]

The goal was just to bomb Iran as much as possible.

When is the new Ayatollah going to come out of his hiding to celebrate the Great Victory?

But wasn't regime change outside the objectives?.

And be honest. After 13.000 bomb missions they're still capable of hit Tel Aviv and all GCC countries. So even your new goal is miserably failed.

 

[delta2]

One Ohio class SSBN is essentially a civilization ender. I hope to God it's never used.

And if so used, Only as second strike capability

This is what many people do not realize. The USA's submarine fleet is unmatched, in a league of its own. It is truly a power given to the USA by Allah Almighty!

 

[krash]

During that war... China had men... human wave attacks ... there was no parity in weapons. It is the same today... however today Iran has drones and missiles. It has embraced asymmetry and didn't even try conventional parity. That along with its geography provide a formidable challenge for any adversary or invaders. The onus is always on the invaders to achieve the set out goals. And prolonging the conflict was Iranian goal to get into a long-term slug fest. Iran will never invade another state regionally let alone on the other side of the world... so this is an imperial war by default. It's goals are imperial and it's geostategic goals are set in making the colonial project viable.... read "A Clean Break"...

A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.dougfeith.com/docs/Clean_Break.pdf

The neocon project.

Yet, the US never directly attacked China. Again, goes to show that China had the means, be it political, military, or economic.

However, my argument for Iran is for before and after this fight. Iran, like every other country, has to fight once it has begun. But when it ends, I hope they can see what they need to do and get on with it so that this cannot be repeated again. IMO, their leadership realized this years before, hence the agreement with Obama.

You're suggesting a pragmatic approach, which is of course perfectly sensible and even ideal. The only caveat is that circumstances sometimes, even oftentimes, do not allow for an ideal entry into war. In my opinion, the single biggest strategic error leading into this current war was actually Hamas's October 2023 operation - it was doomed to fail and cause far reaching ramifications. Iran's hand was forced by the events that followed.

Yes but only if we see the past two years in isolation. Iran's military and political posture built over the previous decades, however righteous or justified it may be, ensured that it would be targeted. Tell me you didn't see it coming? It should not happen again.

The Gulfies are dictatorships whose relevance is oil and who were thrown to the wolves in this war. Pakistan is another dictatorship that has ruined itself engaging in proxy wars for the sake of Arabs/America. India isn't part of the region nor relevant to this particular discussion. Is that "reasonable success" for the people of the region ?

Yet Iranians and Pakistanis flock to these dictatorships and Pakistan stands as an accepted nuclear power without sanctions. What has Iran gained?

Chinese were providing support to Korea and Vietnam, just like they are now to Russia and Iran. They were not directly involved in those conflicts and neither were they subjected to 70 years of American attacks. The comparison is invalid.

This makes no sense at all.

Glad you are enjoying your arguments being shred to pieces.


Your arguments are valid only in a vacuum. They are bereft of real world inputs and outputs.

3 million Chinese soldiers served in Korea and 320,000 in Vietnam. The History of the People's Republic of China, 1949-1976

The problem is American policy of coups and autocracies, which disturbs the political and social evolution of Mideast nations and keeps them devoted to serving American interests instead of their own. It makes it is impossible to "keep your head down and build" unless you throw off the American yoke itself.

Have you ever known any world power ever to be any different? Throwing off the American yoke? Pray do tell how and to what end, except in childish fantasies?

Why would they leave you alone if you keep giving it what it wants ? Isn't it more natural to expect the demands to simply keep increasing ?

As opposed to lose everything along with any chance to ever not have to? Fairly simple equation.

Witness the Mideast countries who have given America endless cheap energy, bought endless amount of its weapons, endless amount of its goods, endlessly kiss its rear and even sacrifices its children in American proxy wars, yet do you feel the US is satisfied and will now leave the region alone ?

Must be horrible that the Iranians, the Pakistanis, the Indians, and everyone else trots their way over there in droves. Had the Arabs had any shame or charecter their situation would have been much better.

"Not poking" is an option that exists only in your imagination. In the real world the below partial list illustrates the wars that the US has subjected the region to since WW2 :

1. Iran 2025
2. Iran 2024
3. Afghanistan 1980's to present
4. Pakistan 1980 to 1990, 2001 to 2021
5. Israel-Palestine 1948 to present
6. Iraq 1992 to present
7. Iran-Iraq war 1980 to 1988
8. Lebanon 1970s to present
9. Syria 2010 to 2024
10. Yemen 1990s to present.
11. Arab-Israel war 1967
12. Arab-Israel war 1973

Why did the US do it ? Because of oil, because of its war lobby, because of Israel, because of its policy of domination. It nothing to do with "poking the bear".

As I've explained repeatedly before, that is a childish understanding of global interests, power, and my argument. Feigning ignorance and repeating the same obtuse argument will not gain you anything. Also, half of that list is incorrect. Regardless, how many wars in Saudi Arabia, Azerbaijan, Tanzania, Indonesia, Mongolia, Malaysia, Tajikistan, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain?


There's a clear disparity in knowledge, willful ignorance, loyalties, emotions, priorities, and biases between the two of us. I don't believe I can waste more time on this with you.

 

[KingQamaR]

Came to my head!!!
The British Empire dies in Suez.
The American empire dies in HORMUZ.

 

[ShapurII]

You can see that the New Zeland flag has it as well. Its most likely the standard for all the flags for the unfurling ceremony.

Yeah, and it's super ugly. And it makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Mero]

Won the war, lost the negociations that are not the 10 point plan agreed to.

trump had no ability to fight the war, Iran had the US check mated the entire war with capacity of shutting down oil and gas for months and years, trump is the deal maker and won the deal making negociations.

Iran should have played the trump game during peace talks:

Iran surrenders to the USA
Next day, the US better surrender to Iran, the surrender to the USA was only the framework for talks
Next day, Iran is going to nuke the US
Next day, Iran loves the US and talks are going ok for Iran
Next day, Iran very strongly believes that the US should hand over their nuclear material to Iran, very strongly
Next day, Iran threatens negociators
Next day, Iran has a blocade on Gulf ports
Next day, Iran says strait is open
Next day, Iran says strait is closed

Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes.

trump deal making is how trump swindled millions from idiots. Iran is the village idiot.

China lost the trade war with trump because they made deals with trump. Threaten trump with an attack on the dollar system with going to gold and silver as money as the way to get trump to abandon tariffs. And if trump retaliates against china, threaten to annex Taiwan. Be the victim as you destroy your opponent. That is how Iran won the war. Make deals with trump and you win stupid prizes.

Called it, trump is mentally ill in deal making, so that the opposition cannot win, Iran had to learn how to negotiate with trump.

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[SolarWarden]

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2 of the 8 US pilots killed in the B-52 crash were involved in bombing Iran

Confirmed? Where in that post does it "confirm" that 2 pilots on board were involved in bombing Iran?

 

[Master Chief]

12 point MOU deal leaked by Israel:

— Iran, the US and their allies will cease hostilities, including in Lebanon

— Iran reiterates its commitment not to develop or acquire nuclear weapons

— US and Iran pledge to resolve issue of disposal of enriched uranium stockpile

— US and Iran to discuss enrichment issue and Iran's nuclear needs

— Iran will maintain status quo on its nuclear program as long as negotiations continue

— The US will lift the naval blockade, not impose new sanctions, and will not increase forces in the region during the negotiations.

— Iran will make the necessary arrangements to ensure safe passage of commercial vessels through the Strait of Hormuz, free of charge, for 60 days.

— US pledges to make frozen Iranian assets available for use with implementation of MoU

— If a final agreement is reached, the US will withdraw its forces within 30 days and lift all sanctions on Iran.

— Any final agreement will include a plan to establish a $300 billion fund for Iran's reconstruction.

— US to give Iran temporary sanctions waivers to sell oil during negotiations

— Negotiations will be held between Iran and Oman with the participation of Persian Gulf policy to define "arrangements regarding shipping and maritime services"

--

It is reasonable. @ShapurII

Well, I'm rather surprised. I thought Iran had thrown its initiative away over that last two weeks of conflict. I was wrong.

If true, this can be interpreted as a major win for Iran financially, with Hormuz transit fees apparently on the table as well as possible lifting of sanctions. The loss for Iran would be curtailment of nuclear ambition and no CLEAR DEMAND FOR IDF WITHDRAWAL in Lebanon, just "cessation" of firing. Iran may have gambled that Hezbollah can genuinely bleed IDF in Lebanon by itself.

For USA, they are set to be in a WORSE position than before the war, when Hormuz transit was free. USA doesn't benefit ONE SINGLE ATOM from Tehran's nuclear curtailment. The ONLY nation that benefits from that is Israel.

American chest beaters - and they know who they are - now need to explain how USA is in a stronger position in the Gulf region than before the war. You fought this war for Israel and Israel has benefited - is that really something your sons in uniform should be proud of?

 

[TAC]

Just look at one aspect: What Iran does ensures the inclination of everyone around it to rush into the US camp. Cha-ching! Thank you Iran.

Really? I don’t see all the GCC nations falling over themselves to get into the US camp after this debacle. Those US bases they had proved to be a liability not an asset. Cha-cing! Thank you for electing the Orange idiot who exposed the US for what it is.

 

[Goenitz]

Pak did a lot behind the scenes, a lot, as did Qatar. Both now well established as brokers and mediators.

Emir of Qatar calling out Pakistan at the G7 with Trump was a nice touch. A major benefit of this will see Pakistan and Qatari Military and strategic coperation grow

Yes.. but that 'a lot' doesn't contain negotiation and formatting a deal. I am not sure how it happened, but we should be content with the first ceasefire.
We shouldn't be selfish and mustn't claim ownership of something which we didn't (negotiation, etc.). It is also better to give credit where it is due, to maintain relationships with Gulf states.

 

[delta2]

Yet, the US never directly attacked China. Again, goes to show that China had the means, be it political, military, or economic.

However, my argument for Iran is for before and after this fight. Iran, like every other country, has to fight once it has begun. But when it ends, I hope they can see what they need to do and get on with it so that this cannot be repeated again. IMO, their leadership realized this years before, hence the agreement with Obama.



Yes but only if we see the past two years in isolation. Iran's military and political posture built over the previous decades, however righteous or justified it may be, ensured that it would be targeted. Tell me you didn't see it coming? It should not happen again.



Yet Iranians and Pakistanis flock to these dictatorships and Pakistan stands as an accepted nuclear power without sanctions. What has Iran gained?



3 million Chinese soldiers served in Korea and 320,000 in Vietnam. The History of the People's Republic of China, 1949-1976



Have you ever known any world power ever to be any different? Throwing off the American yoke? Pray do tell how and to what end, except in childish fantasies?



As opposed to lose everything along with any chance to ever not have to? Fairly simple equation.



Must be horrible that the Iranians, the Pakistanis, the Indians, and everyone else trots their way over there in droves. Had the Arabs had any shame or charecter their situation would have been much better.



As I've explained repeatedly before, that is a childish understanding of global interests, power, and my argument. Feigning ignorance and repeating the same obtuse argument will not gain you anything. Also, half of that list is incorrect. Regardless, how many wars in Saudi Arabia, Azerbaijan, Tanzania, Indonesia, Mongolia, Malaysia, Tajikistan, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain?


There's a clear disparity in knowledge, willful ignorance, loyalties, emotions, priorities, and biases between the two of us. I don't believe I can waste more time on this with you.

In regards to the Korean War, the USA never expected China to enter the war. The Chinese had warned them multiple times but they thought of it as just hot air. The moment they started to came close towards the Yalu River, China entered the war and pushed them all the way back to the current North-South border. China was losing men at a high rate but they successfully pushed the entire allied forces back. They would have taken Seoul too but then the ceasefire happened.

 

[ShapurII]

Let's see who is right at this point.
Irán It is the only natural place to sell Su35. No more countries will dare to buy advanced Russian fighters with CAATSA sanctions.

And yet Russia hasn't delivered a single fighter jet, even when they had 24 Sukhoi-35s ready to be delivered.

I told just once. That points that Al Golani facilitates resupplying Hizbollah.

That's a weird idea. Trump just recently said that he asked Israel to let Syria take care of Hezbollah and you think Syria will supply Hezbollah?

Why don't you ask Netanyahu to resupply Hezbollah? Let's send our weapons to Tel Aviv and then resupply Hezbollah, or even better, purchase Israeli weapons for Hezbollah and ask Israel to deliver them lmao

The whole purpose of overthrowing Assad in Syria with the help of Turkey and Russia was to cut our supply lines to Hezbollah and the so-called Axis of Resistance. I like your optimism though.

 

[delta2]

Came to my head!!!
The British Empire dies in Suez.
The American empire dies in HORMUZ.

The Germans had killed the British Empire in WW2 already, but its burial definitely took place in the Suez lol.

 

[Goenitz]

Really? I don’t see all the GCC nations falling over themselves to get into the US camp after this debacle. Those US bases they had proved to be a liability not an asset. Cha-cing! Thank you for electing the Orange idiot who exposed the US for what it is.

SA realised that after Sulemani's killing. Iran did attack, and the US emptied its bases in Iraq. It was a realisation that a base which cannot be used in a skirmish cannot be used in war.
Since then, SA has been engaged in secret diplomacy with Iran and materialised it with China, Oman, etc in 2022.

 

[delta2]

And yet Russia hasn't delivered a single fighter jet, even when they had 24 Sukhoi-35s ready to be delivered.


That's a weird idea. Trump just recently said that he asked Israel to let Syria take care of Hezbollah and you think Syria will supply Hezbollah?

Why don't you ask Netanyahu to resupply Hezbollah? Let's send our weapons to Tel Aviv and then resupply Hezbollah, or even better, purchase Israeli weapons for Hezbollah and ask Israel to deliver them lmao

The whole purpose of overthrowing Assad in Syria with the help of Turkey and Russia was to cut our supply lines to Hezbollah and the so-called Axis of Resistance. I like your optimism though.

Assad was overthrown from power because he refused the pipeline proposal that was to go from Qatar through KSA through Jordan through Syria Through Turkiye into Europe. He refused Halliburton and instead invited Russian Gazprom to Syria to do business. Little did he know Putin was a zionist puppet all along.

Now that Assad has been removed, that pipeline will be built. This whole Trump-Hormuz war has that behind it.

Pipelinestan!

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www.counterpunch.org