Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[VCheng]

Both are, but NOT US. And if Oman plays dirty with a NON coastal country, they play fire.

But Oman can do what it wants within its coastal waters, fire or not, right? Or am I missing something?

 

[Aryan_B]

We do not need to make oil cheap enough for you. You signed a deal, knowing the price. You signed a contract, you broke it. As simple as that.

You have to realize that if the regime of Iran is changed, the contract you have broken will be grounds for reparations. Billions of dollars of reparations + interest.

contract can be set aside in law. Neither of us has seen terms of contract so meaningless to talk about breach of cntract

The point I am making is that Iran should have made the deal so good that Pakistan had no choice but do it

we agree Pakistani leaders can be purchase So you think Saudis can buy Pakistani leaders but Iranians cant or wont pay the price required

 

[krash]

Good points.

I disagree though that Iran broke the MoU. The timeline of events is evident in itself.

Your first point is based on an assumption that Israel was destined to break the terms and that Iran should have predicted this. The MoU was arbitrated by Pakistan et al in good faith. Why should Iran have assumed it would be immediately and recklessly contravened by Israel? Yes, they should have been prepared for that eventuality, which they likely were, but when an agreement is signed and brokered, it is entirely reasonable to assume that the parties will be beholden to it.

The MOU was signed between the US and Iran. The US did not break its part. Did Iran expect Israel to raise its hands as soon as it was signed? Did it not see the increasing friction between the US and Israel on it, the first time ever? Instead, it attacked those vessels and flung the US exactly where Israel wanted it. Foolishly threw the baby out with the bathwater. How did that serve Iran? I keep repeating this to emphasize that your premise is faulty. The question is not what Iran is justified to do but what will serve it best?

Regarding Omani waters, I never said that I believe that Iran should control them or seek control of them. I said that events in the SoH are not bound by an already broken treaty,

Not what I argued against, either. Morality, or even any treaty, holds no sway on the matter.

Iran knew exactly what the US response would be. Yet, it went ahead with it. To What End? The day that Iran has the means to pull this off, it can go back and do whatever it wants. Premature attempts will only delay it from achieving those means and make its people suffer needlessly.

so belligerent powers will have to work in their own interests from that point onwards.

Within their means while not jeopardizing what has already been achieved.

The very question itself requires inversion. What did Oman think would happen if they took Iranian business away from them almost literally from under their noses and handed that business to all and sundry?

Who would you have picked to oppose, Iran or the US?

If Iran believes it can enforce its interests in SoH, why shouldn't they do just that?

That exact belief is my contention. Iran cannot, to the extent that its hardliners and its posse here wish it could. Their political leadership knows this and was guiding them through it remarkably well until those vessels were hit.

It is essentially a war between cartels out there, fighting for economic supremacy. Siding with one cartel exposes you to the other. You speak of broadly of naivety as though those taking ANY sides in such a mess are somehow any different.

They are, in power. One geriatric manchild can kill dozens of innocent Iranian children with impunity on a vile whim. The naivety is in pretending it's anything different. Taking sides is natural based on personal and national interests. The naivety of personal interests is another matter.

The strong undercurrent is a demand for respect and equality, which is very understandable.

(Except that such things are earned geopolitically, never demanded.)

But naive. Leaves us throwing hissy fits after futile attempts to force it.

 

[Khorasan Black Flags]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Khorasan Black Flags]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[ShapurII]

contract can be set aside in law. Neither of us has seen terms of contract so meaningless to talk about breach of cntract

The point I am making is that Iran should have made the deal so good that Pakistan had no choice but do it

we agree Pakistani leaders can be purhcase So you think Saudis can buy Pakistani leaders but Iranians cant or wont pay the price required

No, it cannot be "set aside" lmao It can be annulled by a court of law for misconduct or justified reasons, not unilaterally, citing US sanctions.

The point I am making is that Iran doesn't need to do anything for Pakistan. The fact that we have been kind enough to you not to sue you for billions of dollars is more than enough for you to appreciate our goodwill.

You paid the Emirates two billion dollars and you guys all cheered it as some great economic achievement. Now imagine you have to pay billions of dollars in reparations + interest.

 

[kobra]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[030292]

We do not need to make oil cheap enough for you. You signed a deal, knowing the price. You signed a contract, you broke it. As simple as that.

You have to realize that if the regime of Iran is changed, the contract you have broken will be grounds for reparations. Billions of dollars of reparations + interest.

That is a fair point but i think your tone is bit harsh, im 100% sure 99% of the pakistani population supports iran in their jihad against zionists, its just that we are too poor and debt ridden to west to act on it, in any other timeline you would be seeing pakistan and iran fighting side by side against the zionists.

 

[PakistanLVR]

"We think they wouldn't have honored the MOU, so we blew it up ourselves". That's your argument? You think they will honor anything of it now? What now then? Some nonsensical fantasies of US' complete capitulation?

If Iran is able to only get rid of the sanctions, it will have won. It should've taken what it had achieved and ran with it.



And it's not right now? Weren't you touting the MOU as a total Iranian win a few days ago? It was. Time to grow up and notice the actual argument. Naive to expect others to share your emotions or unquestioning fealty on the matter.



Everyone knows who and what caused this. Whatever moral arguments you want to placate your own emotions by, do not serve Iran in a war not ruled by them.



Can this regional power hold this control beyond the war? Not whether it should or you wish it could.

That bastard 8k miles away can bring overwhelming force anywhere it wants, and ironically has no less moral justification to it than Iran for controlling Omani waters.

Don’t think I was cheering on the MOU. Didn’t even know what was in it. I thought it was a mistake. For all Muslims sake, Iran should’ve leveled the “Sunnis” countries oil infrastructure as they’ve enabled and supported the destructions of many Muslims across the Islamic world. I’m all for it!

 

[ShapurII]

we agree Pakistani leaders can be purchase So you think Saudis can buy Pakistani leaders but Iranians cant or wont pay the price required

Bro, this isn't an auction where you sell your services to the highest bidder.

 

[Aryan_B]

No, it cannot be "set aside" lmao It can be annulled by a court of law for misconduct or justified reasons, not unilaterally, citing US sanctions.

Of ocurse it can be set aside if there are terms in it that allow it

Bro, this isn't an auction where you sell your services to the highest bidder.

but i think they can be bought what you think US does pays Egypt 2 bill and what 500 mill a year to Jordan etc you think its free money lol

and saudi pay pakistan lol what are these payments?

 

[ShapurII]

That is a fair point but i think your tone is bit harsh, im 100% sure 99% of the pakistani population supports iran in their jihad against zionists, its just that we are too poor and debt ridden to west to act on it, in any other timeline you would be seeing pakistan and iran fighting side by side against the zionists.

I am absolutely OK with Pakistan pursuing her own interests. This is what normal countries do and I do not blame the Pakistanis for that.

I am not a big fan of Iran's foreign policy and I think it has caused so much unnecessary suffering to Iranians for a lost cause. The last thing I want is for Pakistan to follow our stupid path and cause more suffering for the people of Pakistan.

However, the excuse that Pakistan has a right to ask Iran for cheap oil after Pakistan refused to fulfill a signed contract citing the US sanctions is pretty annoying.

 

[Bratva]

When the top cadre of officials all meet in Khamenei’s unprotected house during war time, rather than a bunker like in every other country in the world, what can you expect?

And when they do get protection they ignore protocols.

You can't reason with boomers or change their mentality when it comes to technology or taking precautions.

 

[Aryan_B]

However, the excuse that Pakistan has a right to ask Iran for cheap oil after Pakistan refused to fulfill a signed contract citing the US sanctions is pretty annoying.

cheaper oil would have made pakistan more prepared to put up with american sanctions.

 

[ShapurII]

Of ocurse it can be set aside if there are terms in it that allow it

Cite those "terms" that allow it to be set aside then.

but i think they can be bought what you think US does pays Egypt 2 bill and what 500 mill a year to Jordan etc you think its free money lol

and saudi pay pakistan lol what are these payments?

Of course they can be bought, but not an auction where a country offers some money and the other side offers more lol