Who Created Harappan / Indus Valley Civilisation? | How Did It End? | Samvaad With Devdutt Pattanaik

[Thinking]

It’s shameful that Indians claiming others history. Partition and movement of people were from border area for vast majority of the people. Only indians who can claim some form of ownership with our ancestors were those that left the lands of Pakistan during partition.
Don’t think a mere few millions morphed into 1.5 bn Indians in 80 years. The rest of you are revisionists with no sheer connection to our lands and history.

To make things easier, I asked ChatGPT to provide a neutral source, and below was the response on King Porus.

Yes. If we rely on Greek primary sources and Western academic scholarship (rather than Pakistani or Indian nationalist narratives), the picture is actually fairly consistent.
1. Where was King Porus’ kingdom?
The overwhelming scholarly consensus is that Porus ruled the territory between the Jhelum (Hydaspes) and Chenab (Acesines) Rivers during Alexander’s invasion in 326 BCE.
If you place those rivers on a modern map:

• Jhelum River – almost entirely in Pakistan after entering Punjab.
• Chenab River – flows through Pakistan’s Punjab.

Therefore:
The core of Porus’ kingdom lay in what is today Punjab, Pakistan.
After the Battle of the Hydaspes, Alexander rewarded Porus with additional territory extending farther east, but his original homeland was centered between the Jhelum and Chenab.
Why is there disagreement today?
Because Pakistan and India did not exist in 326 BCE.
Some Indian writers describe him as an “ancient Indian king” because the Greeks used “India” (Indike) broadly for lands east of the Indus. Modern historians distinguish between the ancient geographic term “India” and the modern Republic of India.
Using today’s political borders:

• Core kingdom: Pakistan
• Later expanded territory: likely crossed into parts of modern Indian Punjab after Alexander’s victory.

2. What people did Porus belong to?
Oxford identifies him as ruler of the Pauravas, an ancient Indo-Aryan people.
Many historians believe the Pauravas were connected with the older Puru tribe known from Vedic literature, although this cannot be proven conclusively.

3. Who are his descendants?
This is where modern politics often enters the discussion.
The honest academic answer:
Nobody knows.
There is no documented genealogy from Porus to any living dynasty.
Claims that:

• Katochs
• Rajputs
• Jats
• Khatris
• Gujjars
• Awans
• or anyone else

are direct descendants of Porus are not accepted as historical fact by mainstream scholarship.
Western historians simply state that Porus was assassinated around 321–315 BCE, after which his kingdom disappeared into the expanding Mauryan Empire.
His family may well have survived, but there is no continuous historical record linking them to any present-day community.

4. What religion did Porus follow?
This is actually one of the most interesting questions.
The Greek sources never call Porus a “Hindu.”
Why?
Because Hinduism, as it exists today, did not yet exist in its modern form.
Instead, Porus almost certainly practiced what historians call:

• Historical Vedic religion
• or Late Vedic religion

This religion was based upon:

• sacrifices (yajña)
• fire rituals
• Vedic priests
• reverence for deities such as:
• • Indra
  • Agni
  • Varuna
  • Soma
  • Surya

rather than temple worship.

5. How was Porus’ religion different from modern Hinduism?
Quite significantly.

Porus’ religion (4th century BCE)​	Modern Hinduism​
Centered on Vedic sacrifice	Centered largely on temple worship
Fire rituals dominant	Puja and bhakti dominant
Indra was one of the chief gods	Vishnu, Shiva, Devi dominate
Animal sacrifice existed in some rituals	Rare in most Hindu traditions today
Few or no idols in mainstream worship	Idol (murti) worship widespread
No organized bhakti movements	Bhakti is central
Upanishadic philosophy developing	Vedanta, Yoga, Tantra, Bhakti all integrated

Modern scholars therefore distinguish between Historical Vedic religion and the much broader religious tradition that gradually developed into what is now called Hinduism.

6. Would Porus have called himself a “Hindu”?
Probably not.
The word “Hindu” originally came from the Old Persian pronunciation of Sindhu (the Indus River) and was first a geographical term, referring to people living beyond the Indus.
The development of “Hinduism” as an umbrella label for many indigenous South Asian religious traditions occurred much later, especially during the medieval and colonial periods.
Porus himself would have more likely identified with:

• his kingdom (Paurava)
• his tribe (Puru/Paurava)
• and his Vedic religious traditions,

rather than using the later label “Hindu.”
In summary

• Modern country: Porus’ core kingdom was located in present-day Punjab, Pakistan, between the Jhelum and Chenab Rivers.
• Ethnic affiliation: He ruled the Pauravas, likely connected to the ancient Puru tribe.
• Descendants: No modern group can be historically verified as his descendants; claims made by various communities are speculative rather than established history.
• Religion: He most likely practiced Late Vedic religion, which predates and differs in important ways from the diverse traditions now grouped under modern Hinduism.

LOL...HAA..

This internet slop from descendant of guy named "Porus"!

Does any one in Pakistan understands that "Porus" is a Greek name, right? I guess chatgpt can't give his real name? What a shame for his "descendants".

 

[hussain0216]

Buddy we can do

LOL...HAA..

This internet slop from descendant of guy named "Porus"!

Does any one in Pakistan understands that "Porus" is a Greek name, right? I guess chatgpt can't give his real name? What a shame for his "descendants".

Buddy we can do whatever we like,,

What we don't want is kala Hindus from the east trying to co-opt Pakistani history or heritage

 

[PakistanLVR]

LOL...HAA..

This internet slop from descendant of guy named "Porus"!

Does any one in Pakistan understands that "Porus" is a Greek name, right? I guess chatgpt can't give his real name? What a shame for his "descendants".

That’s your only argument in face of facts?

We don’t like you one bit. Everything about you people disgusts me. The way you butchered sweet Urdu, your mannerism, your way of talking ruining the English language and Urdu, bobbing heads and the behavior.

one thing I hate the most is how utterly pathetic and physical weak you are. White women are stronger than your men. You deserved to be kept in chains as good slaves or as Churchill did - cause famine and starve you all.

 

[Watandar]

@PAKISTANFOREVER @hussain0216 @Master Chief @PK781 @r3alist

Holy Sh*t the obsession of Pakistan is consuming these Indians.
View attachment 208450View attachment 208451View attachment 208452

Agree, the Indian obsession with Pakistan is just something else. These pages show that this obsession is also converted into a massive propaganda budget.

 

[arshu]

Agree, the Indian obsession with Pakistan is just something else. These pages show that this obsession is also converted into a massive propaganda budget.

It is not like that page shows fake or ai , page showing only original videos

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

@PAKISTANFOREVER @hussain0216 @Master Chief @PK781 @r3alist

Holy Sh*t the obsession of Pakistan is consuming these Indians.
View attachment 208450View attachment 208451View attachment 208452

These gangus/indians are obsessed with Pakistan and Pakistanis. They are empty vessels with no morals, values or decency. They HAVE to talk about us because they have NOTHING else as people.

indians will ALWAYS go to Pakistani forums and try to join in and interfere in our discussions whereas we don't give a flying f**k about them and are COMPLETELY uninterested in their forums and discussions. We Pakistanis always discuss our issues and stick to our own.

What the dumb indian mind doesn't realize is that by behaving like this, indians are confirming to the rest of the non-indian world that they are racially inferior.

 

[PakistanLVR]

These gangus/indians are obsessed with Pakistan and Pakistanis. They are empty vessels with no morals, values or decency. They HAVE to talk about us because they have NOTHING else as people.

indians will ALWAYS go to Pakistani forums and try to join in and interfere in our discussions whereas we don't give a flying f**k about them and are COMPLETELY uninterested in their forums and discussions. We Pakistanis always discuss our issues and stick to our own.

What the dumb indian mind doesn't realize is that by behaving like this, indians are confirming to the rest of the non-indian world that they are racially inferior.

I mean Obama did confirm it his memoirs that they are obsessed. Pakistan was always on their talking agenda whenever they meet the Americans. They willingly gave away their weakness and obsession to the US for free. The US takes full advantage of them.

 

[Thinking]

That’s your only argument in face of facts?

We don’t like you one bit. Everything about you people disgusts me. The way you butchered sweet Urdu, your mannerism, your way of talking ruining the English language and Urdu, bobbing heads and the behavior.

one thing I hate the most is how utterly pathetic and physical weak you are. White women are stronger than your men. You deserved to be kept in chains as good slaves or as Churchill did - cause famine and starve you all.

His name was Purushottam. Your rant is fart on wind. Facts are what matter.

We share atleast something, same mutual feeling!

 

[r3alist]

His name was Purushottam. Your rant is fart on wind. Facts are what matter.

We share atleast something, same mutual feeling!

You have factoids.

Pointless waffle

Notice you didn't clarify what your ancestral proximity is to IVC, probably because you are an imposter to it


Btw, your ancestors don't know where ivc was

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I mean Obama did confirm it his memoirs that they are obsessed. Pakistan was always on their talking agenda whenever they meet the Americans. They willingly gave away their weakness and obsession to the US for free. The US takes full advantage of them.

Thing with indians is that they honestly believe that non-indians think and behave like indians when they most definitely do not. indians don't realize how pathetic, retarded and dumb they look to non-indians when they keep going on about Pakistan, Muslims and Islam. Non-indians find it irritating, annoying and creepy but an indian would not have the situational awareness to realize that. This in part has contributed towards the increasing global hatred towards india and indians.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

You have factoids.

Pointless waffle

Notice you didn't clarify what your ancestral proximity is to IVC, probably because you are an imposter to it


Btw, your ancestors don't know where ivc was

Ignore him. He makes a lot of claims but like all indians, NEVER EVER has any credible or reliable evidence to back them up.

 

[Neojinnah]

Not what I asked. What I asked was his name. Surely, what you claim is yours, you must know it well? What was his name?

Multan is derived from Sanskrit word Mulasthana. Another thing you wish to lay claim to? Urdu is from modern day India (Uttar Pradesh and Delhi). Perhaps you wish to swap urdu for Sanskrit?

Do you ever experience any cognitive dissonance thinking people from Multan and Punjab can't claim a historical figure from that land while a converted cow fanatic rapist from Bihar/Tamil Nadu/Assam etc can?

 

[PakistanLVR]

Do you ever experience any cognitive dissonance thinking people from Multan and Punjab can't claim a historical figure from that land while a converted cow fanatic rapist from Bihar/Tamil Nadu/Assam etc can?

This is the part that makes me angry. They lumped us with them and forget that at best only 5% Indians are closer to Pakistan than the 95% of Indians. They continue to assist everyone in South Asia is the same and the boundaries are artificial often blamed on the English and or the Muslims.

I think it’s sinister behavior and an underhanded way to claim the history of Pakistanis via backdoor subversion of “sem2sem.”

The routine in which they go about spreading revisionist history and then using it as an echo chamber is quite effective. One has to go to their spaces to catch a glimpse of how nefarious their thinking is. They’ve lied to themselves so much that the truth is subjective vs objectively.

Pakistans softpower is exponentially more than anything Hindu or Indian. But we can’t seem to get our head out of our as*ses to formula a comprehensive policy to deal them at the cultural level.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

This is the part that makes me angry. They lumped us with them and forget that at best only 5% Indians are closer to Pakistan than the 95% of Indians. They continue to assist everyone in South Asia is the same and the boundaries are artificial often blamed on the English and or the Muslims.

I think it’s sinister behavior and an underhanded way to claim the history of Pakistanis via backdoor subversion of “sem2sem.”

The routine in which they go about spreading revisionist history and then using it as an echo chamber is quite effective. One has to go to their spaces to catch a glimpse of how nefarious their thinking is. They’ve lied to themselves so much that the truth is subjective vs objectively.

Pakistans softpower is exponentially more than anything Hindu or Indian. But we can’t seem to get our head out of our as*ses to formula a comprehensive policy to deal them at the cultural level.

It's also because many Pakistanis especially the older ones have bought into the idea of looking up to non-Pakistani Muslims and their heritage instead of focusing on our great and rich heritage, history and civilizational legacy. This IS changing but albeit very slowly.