HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions

[CallSignMaverick]

This is the result of decades of in-house R&D. It'll be only the second type of Indian airborne radar to enter mass production and operational service with the AEW&Cs radar being the first.

Third type coming soon

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[NeptunesVortex]

Uttam AESA radars ordered

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Nothing short of an achievement for the LCA programme in my opinion.

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[CallSignMaverick]

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Where's the interview?

 

[NeptunesVortex]

Where's the interview?

Let me check that.

 

[NeptunesVortex]

Tejas has come a long way. The earlier versions depended on 5 major foreign components: American F404 engine, Russian 23 mm gun, Israeli radar and ASPJ and the British radome and ejection seat.

Now the picture is slowly changing. DRDO has already begun flight trials of the indigenous radome and HAL has placed orders for 122 AAAUs and 121 interface frames for the Uttam radar. The indigenous ASPJ isn't far behind either.

Once these are in place, the engine will be the last big foreign piece. Hopefully, Kaveri or another Indian engine will eventually take over. It has taken years to get here but this is how real self-reliance is built one system at a time.

 

[Daiba]

Does anyone know, why India chose an American engine of all things for their jet?

I mean, were they not aware of American policy of denial? There was Russian option too. Or European (EJ200).

Why American?

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Does anyone know, why India chose an American engine of all things for their jet?

I mean, were they not aware of American policy of denial? There was Russian option too. Or European (EJ200).

Why American?

they have already tried Russians....!

 

[Daiba]

they have already tried Russians....!

They are making Russian engines (RD-33MK) in country from imported parts... Why use American engine then? Because American will add to supply chain risk.

They use RD-33MK in Mig-29 anyways and they have a decent sized Mig-29 fleet in Airforce and Navy.

Why create a zoo of engines?

 

[Deino]

The Point is simply, the RD-33 is old, unreliable, heavy, less capable and economically and has very much different dimensions to replace it after the Design was finalised.

 

[Daiba]

The Point is simply, the RD-33 is old, unreliable, heavy, less capable and economically and has very much different dimensions to replace it after the Design was finalised.

A plane that flies is always better than one that is sitting in storage waiting engines.

Moreover, India is already operarting a large number of those engine, maintaining them and assembling them locally with some parts from Russia.

Bringing a new engine from a country known for its unreliability as a defense supplier makes use of American jet engine stupid.

India should have pivoted to european engines if not Russian ones. EJ200 would have been a saner choice. Or M88 engine would have been a better choice. France had even agreed to allow use of M88 core to complete Kaveri engine, in a fashion very similar to RM-12 used by Grippen.

At the present rate, India will get substantial Tejas MK1A in mid 2030s. Which is a very poor decision. The plane will be largely outdated on arrival.

 

[Deino]

The point is not should have and what might have been better!

A decision was made and now you have to face the consequences! Now to concern about if a Russian engine was better - technically surely not - or politically - just look at the current events, I don‘t think Russia could warrant the manufacturing - even more so since India made its own mistakes in ordering to few too late or under unknown conditions. Why do other countries have no issues piedmont almost the same engine like South Korea ?

Again, to re-engine the Tejas it‘s too late since it would require a whole new redesign of the rear fuselage, additional tests and certification for what is already a long delayed and IMO failed project!

And concerning wet dreams to wait for a Kaveri development … just forget it!

 

[NeptunesVortex]

It’s a supply chain and industrial problem. GE had effectively shut the F404-IN20 production line after deliveries dried up in the 2010s, so restarting it for the 2021 HAL order meant rebuilding a dormant industrial ecosystem. Covid made that far worse: suppliers closed, skilled labour left and critical suppliers (including a South Korean component supplier) went bankrupt creating specialist gaps for high temperature turbine forgings and precision castings. GE only restarted deliveries after re-establishing the supplier chain and restarting the line.

These are engineering, metallurgy and supply base problems (single crystal blades, CMCs, precision forgings) that take years to fix.

 

[NeptunesVortex]

Does anyone know, why India chose an American engine of all things for their jet?

Why American?

1. Excellent metallurgy and hot-section materials.
2. High MTBO and long service life.
3. Reliable compressor design with excellent stall margin.
4. Modular, maintenance friendly architecture.
5. FADEC and built-in health monitoring.
6. Rapid throttle response.
7. Proven combat reliability over millions of flight hours.

 

[NeptunesVortex]

I mean, were they not aware of American policy of denial? There was Russian option too. Or European (EJ200).

The Eurojet EJ200 was looked at but it cost more and didn't offer enough extra benefits to justify redesigning the Tejas around it.

The Russian RD-33 was also an option but it's heavier and needs more maintenance. For Tejas, that would have meant extra weight, higher upkeep and lower overall efficiency.

 

[Daiba]

1. Excellent metallurgy and hot-section materials.
2. High MTBO and long service life.
3. Reliable compressor design with excellent stall margin.
4. Modular, maintenance friendly architecture.
5. FADEC and built-in health monitoring.
6. Rapid throttle response.
7. Proven combat reliability over millions of flight hours.

Same could be said about EJ200 and M88.
Infact a Kaveri with M88 core would have made more sense.

Right now, India is juggling F404 (which arrive at Washington's pleasure), M88s for Rafale and like India will get an assembly plant for that if order of 100+ Rafales goes through, RD33 MK (for Mig29/K) which are again assembled locally using Russian parts.
All of these are in similar or same thrust class. Would have made sense to keep them 2.

Just because something is shiny does not mean you stuff your home with it and 10 more things like it.