Joint Defense Agreement: Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, news & updates

Intreresting call so soon afterwards. My guess is Kuwaitis will be soon joining, they basicaly do whatever the Saudis do anyway

They need to pay up for the last 19 years. I think $1 billion for each year should cover it.
 
The emerging alignment among Turkey, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia is quite interesting.

Perhaps the next time tensions escalate into a conflict between India and Pakistan, China can simply sit back and observe what actions Turkey and Saudi Arabia choose to take.
 
They need to pay up for the last 19 years. I think $1 billion for each year should cover it.

Lets see, we already inked a defence agreement with them last month and in talks to extablish a Kuwaiti oil reserve near Gwadar, things moving quickly, Kuwaiti attitudes have changed rapidly since Iranian missiles were falling on them every day. It is a very small country so everyone will have noticed the attacks
 
Looks like Iran has accepted this alliance

View attachment 210136

Despite the "surprise" and "anger" of some Iranians here(whose anger maybe about this potentially stopping the establishment of Greater Perisa than anything else), this was discussed with them via their Foreign Minister with PAkistan and also via Russia and China according to the latest Praveen Force India video and it seems they are onboard with it.
 
  1. It is not surprising that previous attempts failed. Countries without their own defense industry depend on foreign sources.
  2. The fact that Turkey has not fought Israel so far does not mean it will not fight in the future. We Turks have avoided entering a full scale war for 100 years. We have been working hard to develop our defense industry for the last 60 years.
  3. This alliance is not against anyone, but countries that cause instability and terrorism are uncomfortable with it.
What several hot heads fail to understand on this thread is that lessons are best learned from the mistakes of others.

Iran rushed (or was rushed) into a war at a time that suited its enemies. This resulted in a stalemate, more or less. But it also harmed Iran's foreign interests.

Turkiye is a sensible and responsible nation state. Why on earth folks are goading them into "urgent action" against any other nation state, just to "prove itself" is beyond my understanding.

Turkiye quite literally just ended a multinational and extremely dangerous terrorist entity.

Hope they carry on with their calm and methodical approach and that the rest of us learn from it!
 
Despite the "surprise" and "anger" of some Iranians here(whose anger maybe about this potentially stopping the establishment of Greater Perisa than anything else), this was discussed with them via their Foreign Minister with PAkistan and also via Russia and China according to the latest Praveen Force India video and it seems they are onboard with it.

Realistically they were never going to attack Turkiye or Pakistan, If they accept this pact, this means the Saudis just bought themselves protection, genuine protection, against Iran, so already worth it in Saudi eyes
 
Not long ago Turkiye and KSA relations were scarred over Kashogi episode, but due to changing Geopolitical situation, mutual interests and need of hour these countries came together to sign a agreement that attack on one will be considered attack on the other when activated, that's a big development in itself. No permanent enemies or Friends in Geopolitics, only mutual interests and money that define such agreements. Iran war has disbalance the regional security apparatus badly, everyone in the region and outside are back to drawing board, drones change the nature of warfare, Nuclear weapons are becoming less and less scary, and proxies are seen as outdated methods of countering your enemy, there was a time whenever everyone used Proxies, Pakistan did, KSA did, Turkiye did, Iran famous for it, America OG proxy user, Israel did everyone used some useful idiots for their own personal gains and later discarded like a used condom, Houthis/Taliban/PKK/YPG/Jandul Allah etc.

None of the 3 countries will have any thing to lose here but some kind of gains, agreements/defense coorportation between KSA-Turkiye-Pakistan exists before this agreement, investments in local economy was happening regardless so I don't see the fuss regarding a agreement which none of the 3 countries said against anyone, as for why its not activated because of Houthis attack, I think it was @TheSC who said few pages back, it wont be activated after every Houthis missile strike or every PKK attack or every BLA/Taliban attack those are proxy/internal issues which all 3 countries are more than capable of taking care of, if these three countries increase in diplomatic support to each other that will definitely help, Pakistan don't/won't need KSA/Turkish soldiers to charge at Indians in case of a war, as long as we are getting shipments of missiles, ammo, oil and diplomatic support from the 2, we are good and can handle India ourselves.

KSA can hit Houthis and even Iran as Iran AD is pretty much gone beside hitting some drones in recent weeks/months, KSA will get training, more Pakistani troops which will keep an eye on Israel and other countries, while KSA can use its AF to hit Houthis. Houthis are in same position as Taliban, they are already in stone age, and masses of uneducated Jahil people who knows nothing besides war and conflict, its not like Houthis are producing Doctors, Engineers, scientists, professors who are taking arms.. Sooner or later the Yemen own's govt will gain some upper hand and start pushing the Houthis, it will then be either make peace of yet another bloodshed between Yemenis, the point here is that if you see the situation of Houthis, then see what and how Qatari/Kuwaits/Emirati's are doing that should tell you everything, Iranians are using Houthis as useful idiots by sending them their IRGC advisors but that is keeping Yemen in a collective and constant loop of extremism, poverty and even if war with KSA stop they will still suffer because of the sanctions, no one wants military aged men with past fighting experience in their countries, Yemen needs to end this cycle... they need to think about their own people, their own national interest...

As for Turkiye, well PKK/YPG is pretty much non-existent now, Turks did wonderful job with hitting them, not only that they effectively end Syrian civil war, rebuilding Syrian armed forces, slowly but steadily. Turks can fight, they have resources, they have economy, they have technology and cover from major EU/NATO powers, KSA/Pakistan often get denied western Technology, Pakistan-China both now have China and EU alternatives from Turkiye and Chinese rising defense production. In fact Turkiye can diversify its own defense industry by setting up factories in Pakistan-KSA which will help them cover the cost of expensive major weapon systems like KAAN/Subs/Ships/AD, the benefits are very much as long as all 3 countries remain true and honor this agreement.

Lastly, like I've said many times... its too early to say what this agreement will bring, but signing it and starting a process is indeed a good step in right direction, if others join then good if not then i don't see any issue with that, in Islamic world KSA-Pakistan-Turkiye-Iran-Egpyt are the only countries that matters most because of its size, economies, military power, diplomatic power and location. Iran is already taken a beating and they will be licking their wounds for 1-2 decades if they survive (i hope they do) and Egypt well not sure how and where they stand, its too early and right now Egyptians maybe calculating their options, I am not gonna say that countries/leaders just make such decisions out of the blue, there is a whole country with its beaureucracy, think tanks and top minds that sit together and then such decisions are made, so when people make fun of this agreement and call it stupid, and even if we argue that Pakistani policy makers have not made many good decisions in past, I doubt that Turkiye or KSA will just buy this manjan or Churan that Pakistan somehow able to sell it to 2 strongest economies and regional powers, and if we (Pakistan) are indeed that smart that we somehow scam these 2 power houses into this scam agreement, then I would say take a BOW at the Pakistan's foreign policy even if it means they bring these 2 other countries into a sham agreement.
 
We are currently learning that wars no longer require millions of soldiers. Billions in the bank are also useless. Here's what's important.
1. Intelligence Service
2. technologically advanced weapons
3. Full warehouses with these weapons
 
So let's remove history just because you say so ? let's say it's irrelevant .. alright.

Egypt hasn't fought israel 6 times , Pakistan hasn't participated with its pilots in 1973 against israel , Faisal didn't cut off oil to help Egypt in 1973 etc etc.

but somehow , mighty turkey poses a threat to israel because the zionist entity SAYS SO.

ok good argument bro.

Why are you pretending Egypt today is Nasser's egypt. And completely dodge the point about Egyptian military officers in Tel Aviv, you think Egyptian Military officers would be in Tel Aviv with Israelis if Israel viewed Egypt as a threat?
 
Why are you pretending Egypt today is Nasser's egypt. And completely dodge the point about Egyptian military officers in Tel Aviv, you think Egyptian Military officers would be in Tel Aviv with Israelis if Israel viewed Egypt as a threat?

Egypt was a problem with Mursi as head of state. A real danger.

Sisi is no problem - they like eachother very much.

Hence why the global press was writing about 'opression' and 'attacks at pressfreedom and human rights' during Morsi's reign all the time.

And now? Thet never ever criticize Sisi.
 
The emerging alignment among Turkey, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia is quite interesting.

Perhaps the next time tensions escalate into a conflict between India and Pakistan, China can simply sit back and observe what actions Turkey and Saudi Arabia choose to take.

China is a vital link

The world is changing
 
We are currently learning that wars no longer require millions of soldiers. Billions in the bank are also useless. Here's what's important.
1. Intelligence Service
2. technologically advanced weapons
3. Full warehouses with these weapons

100% This. What Ukraine and US/Iran showed us, and to a lessor extent Sindoor, was that very high end missiles and interceptors do work but not as well as expected. Less accuracy means mass becomes more important.

US now investing in less sophisticated but cheaper Patriot interceptors that can be made more quickly, likewise Ukraine has down well lowering the sophistication and cost of its drone fleet, likewise India got some hits in with Pakistan with Brahmos but would need much more mass to sustain an effective campaign.

In a high end conflict how long would it be before Pak runs out of HQ-9s, Fatah missiles, RAAD missiles and PL-15s?

Even NATO has commented on how Turks can produce weapons on mass. I would rather have a warehouse full of 500 SOM Cruise missiles with less accuracy and range then 200 SCALPs.
 
100% This. What Ukraine and US/Iran showed us, and to a lessor extent Sindoor, was that very high end missiles and interceptors do work but not as well as expected. Less accuracy means mass becomes more important.

US now investing in less sophisticated but cheaper Patriot interceptors that can be made more quickly, likewise Ukraine has down well lowering the sophistication and cost of its drone fleet, likewise India got some hits in with Pakistan with Brahmos but would need much more mass to sustain an effective campaign.

In a high end conflict how long would it be before Pak runs out of HQ-9s, Fatah missiles, RAAD missiles and PL-15s?

Even NATO has commented on how Turks can produce weapons on mass. I would rather have a warehouse full of 500 SOM Cruise missiles with less accuracy and range then 200 SCALPs.
This is a very serious matter of war/military economics.

Being able to manufacture something is one thing. Being able to manufacture it on a large scale and cheaply is another. But on this forum, many people confuse the two.
 
This is a very serious matter of war/military economics.

Being able to manufacture something is one thing. Being able to manufacture it on a large scale and cheaply is another. But on this forum, many people confuse the two.

Yes, agree, this is where Pakistan can excel given the right technology and investment. No shortage of both cheap labour and trained engineers, land and military demand. Mass is not a prblem for Pakistan and it has shown it can mass produce basic items like artillery shells and IFVs to an extent we export
What is lacking is the technology for modern weapons. Here Turkiye and China can help greatly
 

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