PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[BlueMarlin]

The F16 mafia lobby were proven to be wrong, the J10CE proved to be the star of show, outclassing the F16's performance by talking all the kills. Thankfully someone somewhere in the PAF was able to overcome the F16 mafia lobby and push through the J10CE.

the f16 will slowly take a back seat, the amraams it had were once suitable for the india of 2019 pre rafale, but now without the aim-120d or a block-v upgrade they will take a more defensive or even standoff role in future scenario's.

 

[BlueMarlin]

Hi,

My understanding is that the Rafale will always have problems against the J10 as well as the JF17---.

The main issue to my understanding is the nose cone size of the Rafale---and I have written about it in a few prior posts/

The size of the Rafale nose can accomodate an AESA radar with about 855 TR modules---.

The size of the Rafale nose has constarints---it cannot be enlarged due to the positioning of the engine intakes---.

OTOH---the J10 has around 1400 TR modules on its aesa radar---& the JF17---possibly around a 1000 TR modules.

Whereas the F15 / F35 have over or around 1500 ++ TR modules and the F22's have around 2000 TR modules similar to J20---.

Now---if the F22's still have the first gen aesa radar and the J20 with the 3rd gen aesa---?????

The critical factor here---how fast the TR modules cycles itself---. An electronics guy would know better---.

Disclaimer coming out is that the J10 did not use its awacs---but used its own resources---and I said to myself---this is what I wrote awhile ago---awacs are a give away---the aircrafts own aesa will have to work superior to that of the other party's aesa---.

If it was not so---then the F22's and F35 would become redundant if they based their capabilities on an awac---as an awac be observable from a distance---and the presence of awac meant---the f22 and f35's are there.

the rafales are only able to communicate with fellow rafales and nothing else which is what makes them useless in a world of multi domain environments.

something which the indians want but cant

the current f3's they have are already superseded with f4's


also the meteor being a fire and forget missile due to the rafale's data bus architecture
makes it vulnerable to ew interception.


realistically the jf-17 block 3 should be able to hold its own against the rafale. in bvr multidomain enviroment

 

[Ali_Baba]

the rafales are only able to communicate with fellow rafales and nothing else which is what makes them useless in a world of multi domain environments.

The Rafales are link-16 capable, so if India would incorporate that protocol with Link-16 terminals on its own NETRA AEW&C, they then can close the gap quite a lot. They won't get mid-course updates via the Link-16 alone yet, but Link-16 can provide updates to the Rafale which can provide mid-course updates to the missile. F4 variant of the Rafale provides Collaborative / Third-Party guidance capabilities which is essentially what PAF has. When that happens, the only advantage PAF has is a missile range advantage.

This why I think PAF should move to the J-35AE to keep a qualitative edge over the IAF as trading blows as equals does not work in PAF's interest given it is a smaller air force. A Immature J-35AE still offers far more military capability than a mature J-10CE does and India can catch up PAF's spear tip capability via the Rafale procurement via the F4 and F5 variants, which is why they are so on purchasing it despite the costs.

PAF has drawn a line on further J10CE procurements, and move onto the J-35AE asap to keep its edge.

 

[Yasser76]

The Rafales are link-16 capable, so if India would incorporate that protocol with Link-16 terminals on its own NETRA AEW&C, they then can close the gap quite a lot. They won't get mid-course updates via the Link-16 alone yet, but Link-16 can provide updates to the Rafale which can provide mid-course updates to the missile. F4 variant of the Rafale provides Collaborative / Third-Party guidance capabilities which is essentially what PAF has. When that happens, the only advantage PAF has is a missile range advantage.

This why I think PAF should move to the J-35AE to keep a qualitative edge over the IAF as trading blows as equals does not work in PAF's interest given it is a smaller air force. A Immature J-35AE still offers far more military capability than a mature J-10CE does and India can catch up PAF's spear tip capability via the Rafale procurement via the F4 and F5 variants, which is why they are so on purchasing it despite the costs.

PAF has drawn a line on further J10CE procurements, and move onto the J-35AE asap to keep its edge.

100% agree.

Although I think US would be reluctant to let India open up Link-16 and integrate it onto the Netra, so far as I know only let NATO nations do that (and Sweden)

Also does not solve the problem that the SU-30s will not have Link 16

 

[Corax]

The Rafales are link-16 capable, so if India would incorporate that protocol with Link-16 terminals on its own NETRA AEW&C, they then can close the gap quite a lot. They won't get mid-course updates via the Link-16 alone yet, but Link-16 can provide updates to the Rafale which can provide mid-course updates to the missile. F4 variant of the Rafale provides Collaborative / Third-Party guidance capabilities which is essentially what PAF has. When that happens, the only advantage PAF has is a missile range advantage.

This why I think PAF should move to the J-35AE to keep a qualitative edge over the IAF as trading blows as equals does not work in PAF's interest given it is a smaller air force. A Immature J-35AE still offers far more military capability than a mature J-10CE does and India can catch up PAF's spear tip capability via the Rafale procurement via the F4 and F5 variants, which is why they are so on purchasing it despite the costs.

PAF has drawn a line on further J10CE procurements, and move onto the J-35AE asap to keep its edge.

There's pros and cons to this approach. It could be argued that we don't need a fifth gen type just yet as the IAF is many years away from that, and PAF's strategy of responding to IAF developments seems to be working in terms of off the shelf solutions to counter the IAF. For example, imagine if the PAF had opted for the J10A in large numbers back in the early 2000s in order to respond to the IAF's large BVR fleet, we would now be lumbered with a large fleet of J10As that would have needed significant upgrading to AESA in order to counter the Rafales. Instead, we had the option for the J10CE that had matured to the extent of being an almost new aircraft, far from the early J10As, and that turned out to be way more capable than the Rafale. The PAF instead opted for the JF17 to be the backbone of its BVR solution, and eventually capitalize on access to the US to upgrade its Viper fleet. Had 9/11 not occurred, we wouldn't have been able to modernise our existing fleet or acquire new airframes.

 

[mdmm55]

It was being announced in Pakistan that Pakistan will get J-35 jet fighters on August 14,2026.
But nobody saw J-35 jet in Pakista...It proved that China has refused to give J-35 to Pakistan.
So rumors from many websites including diplomat.com,defencesecurity, proved correct .

 

[Yasser76]

It was being announced in Pakistan that Pakistan will get J-35 jet fighters on August 14,2026.
But nobody saw J-35 jet in Pakista...It proved that China has refused to give J-35 to Pakistan.
So rumors from many websites including diplomat.com,defencesecurity, proved correct .

Dude, what crack are you on? Also whats with under 400 posts in 17 years?

 

[Mohid Afzal]

This why I think PAF should move to the J-35AE to keep a qualitative edge over the IAF

The one major issue Pak will face is that getting the J-35 now will not only trigger a new procurment war between Pak and India but also give many of our enemies new excuses for sanctions and restrictions. Moreover, India has both links/relations and very deep pockets to sustain it's new purchases, for Pak however it's the opposite.
Personally, I think the better aproach would be to phase out obsolete aircraft such as the F-7PG's and the Mirages but that move itself is slowed down due to lack of cash.
Lastly, I won't disagree with your post but there are too many variables that will have to be dealt with.

 

[BlueMarlin]

The Rafales are link-16 capable, so if India would incorporate that protocol with Link-16 terminals on its own NETRA AEW&C, they then can close the gap quite a lot. They won't get mid-course updates via the Link-16 alone yet, but Link-16 can provide updates to the Rafale which can provide mid-course updates to the missile. F4 variant of the Rafale provides Collaborative / Third-Party guidance capabilities which is essentially what PAF has. When that happens, the only advantage PAF has is a missile range advantage.

This why I think PAF should move to the J-35AE to keep a qualitative edge over the IAF as trading blows as equals does not work in PAF's interest given it is a smaller air force. A Immature J-35AE still offers far more military capability than a mature J-10CE does and India can catch up PAF's spear tip capability via the Rafale procurement via the F4 and F5 variants, which is why they are so on purchasing it despite the costs.

PAF has drawn a line on further J10CE procurements, and move onto the J-35AE asap to keep its edge.

the rafales do have link 16 which is a protocol that can be used but can they use it to work with their own subsystems? if they could then they wouldn’t have asked for source codes for the wms. and other elements in the rafales. same case applies with pakistan too, but they have link 17 which was internally developed.

current indian rafale are f3r's it does not have the f4 variant yet, id assume future planes will be f4's. f5 will be brought in during the early 2030's and france wants them first before anyone. so they will be a possibility mid 2030's

future j10's will come in as more rafales come in, j10 production is slowing down there now with potential to move it to pakistan if the numbers required are large enough,

the j35 will come in mid 2030's, there not required

 

[Deino]

It was being announced in Pakistan that Pakistan will get J-35 jet fighters on August 14,2026.
But nobody saw J-35 jet in Pakista...It proved that China has refused to give J-35 to Pakistan.
So rumors from many websites including diplomat.com,defencesecurity, proved correct .

No, NO-ONE officially announced that date! All we have is the reporting, that Pakistan will get them; nothing more!

Anything else is talk, rumours and much more talk again via enthusiasts, fan-boys and analysts and some rated these claims as "we will get them by August 2026", whereas others still say "You won't get them within the next two years!"

Therefore to think something evil might have happened, China refused to give ... it's all BS!

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The one major issue Pak will face is that getting the J-35 now will not only trigger a new procurment war between Pak and India but also give many of our enemies new excuses for sanctions and restrictions. Moreover, India has both links/relations and very deep pockets to sustain it's new purchases, for Pak however it's the opposite.
Personally, I think the better aproach would be to phase out obsolete aircraft such as the F-7PG's and the Mirages but that move itself is slowed down due to lack of cash.
Lastly, I won't disagree with your post but there are too many variables that will have to be dealt with.

As for the funds available to the Pak Deep State, even the US policymakers are now dead concerned about it....

 

[mythbuster]

Dude, what crack are you on? Also whats with under 400 posts in 17 years?

He is a man of few words and even fewer brain cells.

 

[MastanKhan]

RBE2 AA's 838 TRM aperture is good enough to track 1m² RCS targets at 50nm+. So it isn't an issue when going against other 4th gen fighter like J-10CE or JF-17 B3. Because no BVR missile has NEZ more than 50nm.

J-10CE's radar doesn't have 1400 TRM. It has around 1250-1300 TRM. Which would give it some advantage compared to RBE2 AA against low RCS target.

The issue with IAF was employment incompetence and they got tactically outmaneuvered by PAF's engagement scheme.

Also, what is a 3rd gen AESA on J20? Did Chinese operationalize GaN on diamonds?

Hi,

Thank you---it is so easy to get the real information out---but approximately 1400 is closer to 1300-1250 than 850 on the Rafale.