PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[BlueMarlin]

The F16 mafia lobby were proven to be wrong, the J10CE proved to be the star of show, outclassing the F16's performance by talking all the kills. Thankfully someone somewhere in the PAF was able to overcome the F16 mafia lobby and push through the J10CE.

the f16 will slowly take a back seat, the amraams it had were once suitable for the india of 2019 pre rafale, but now without the aim-120d or a block-v upgrade they will take a more defensive or even standoff role in future scenario's.

 

[BlueMarlin]

Hi,

My understanding is that the Rafale will always have problems against the J10 as well as the JF17---.

The main issue to my understanding is the nose cone size of the Rafale---and I have written about it in a few prior posts/

The size of the Rafale nose can accomodate an AESA radar with about 855 TR modules---.

The size of the Rafale nose has constarints---it cannot be enlarged due to the positioning of the engine intakes---.

OTOH---the J10 has around 1400 TR modules on its aesa radar---& the JF17---possibly around a 1000 TR modules.

Whereas the F15 / F35 have over or around 1500 ++ TR modules and the F22's have around 2000 TR modules similar to J20---.

Now---if the F22's still have the first gen aesa radar and the J20 with the 3rd gen aesa---?????

The critical factor here---how fast the TR modules cycles itself---. An electronics guy would know better---.

Disclaimer coming out is that the J10 did not use its awacs---but used its own resources---and I said to myself---this is what I wrote awhile ago---awacs are a give away---the aircrafts own aesa will have to work superior to that of the other party's aesa---.

If it was not so---then the F22's and F35 would become redundant if they based their capabilities on an awac---as an awac be observable from a distance---and the presence of awac meant---the f22 and f35's are there.

the rafales are only able to communicate with fellow rafales and nothing else which is what makes them useless in a world of multi domain environments.

something which the indians want but cant

the current f3's they have are already superseded with f4's


also the meteor being a fire and forget missile due to the rafale's data bus architecture
makes it vulnerable to ew interception.


realistically the jf-17 block 3 should be able to hold its own against the rafale. in bvr multidomain enviroment

 

[Ali_Baba]

the rafales are only able to communicate with fellow rafales and nothing else which is what makes them useless in a world of multi domain environments.

The Rafales are link-16 capable, so if India would incorporate that protocol with Link-16 terminals on its own NETRA AEW&C, they then can close the gap quite a lot. They won't get mid-course updates via the Link-16 alone yet, but Link-16 can provide updates to the Rafale which can provide mid-course updates to the missile. F4 variant of the Rafale provides Collaborative / Third-Party guidance capabilities which is essentially what PAF has. When that happens, the only advantage PAF has is a missile range advantage.

This why I think PAF should move to the J-35AE to keep a qualitative edge over the IAF as trading blows as equals does not work in PAF's interest given it is a smaller air force. A Immature J-35AE still offers far more military capability than a mature J-10CE does and India can catch up PAF's spear tip capability via the Rafale procurement via the F4 and F5 variants, which is why they are so on purchasing it despite the costs.

PAF has drawn a line on further J10CE procurements, and move onto the J-35AE asap to keep its edge.

 

[Yasser76]

The Rafales are link-16 capable, so if India would incorporate that protocol with Link-16 terminals on its own NETRA AEW&C, they then can close the gap quite a lot. They won't get mid-course updates via the Link-16 alone yet, but Link-16 can provide updates to the Rafale which can provide mid-course updates to the missile. F4 variant of the Rafale provides Collaborative / Third-Party guidance capabilities which is essentially what PAF has. When that happens, the only advantage PAF has is a missile range advantage.

This why I think PAF should move to the J-35AE to keep a qualitative edge over the IAF as trading blows as equals does not work in PAF's interest given it is a smaller air force. A Immature J-35AE still offers far more military capability than a mature J-10CE does and India can catch up PAF's spear tip capability via the Rafale procurement via the F4 and F5 variants, which is why they are so on purchasing it despite the costs.

PAF has drawn a line on further J10CE procurements, and move onto the J-35AE asap to keep its edge.

100% agree.

Although I think US would be reluctant to let India open up Link-16 and integrate it onto the Netra, so far as I know only let NATO nations do that (and Sweden)

Also does not solve the problem that the SU-30s will not have Link 16

 

[Corax]

The Rafales are link-16 capable, so if India would incorporate that protocol with Link-16 terminals on its own NETRA AEW&C, they then can close the gap quite a lot. They won't get mid-course updates via the Link-16 alone yet, but Link-16 can provide updates to the Rafale which can provide mid-course updates to the missile. F4 variant of the Rafale provides Collaborative / Third-Party guidance capabilities which is essentially what PAF has. When that happens, the only advantage PAF has is a missile range advantage.

This why I think PAF should move to the J-35AE to keep a qualitative edge over the IAF as trading blows as equals does not work in PAF's interest given it is a smaller air force. A Immature J-35AE still offers far more military capability than a mature J-10CE does and India can catch up PAF's spear tip capability via the Rafale procurement via the F4 and F5 variants, which is why they are so on purchasing it despite the costs.

PAF has drawn a line on further J10CE procurements, and move onto the J-35AE asap to keep its edge.

There's pros and cons to this approach. It could be argued that we don't need a fifth gen type just yet as the IAF is many years away from that, and PAF's strategy of responding to IAF developments seems to be working in terms of off the shelf solutions to counter the IAF. For example, imagine if the PAF had opted for the J10A in large numbers back in the early 2000s in order to respond to the IAF's large BVR fleet, we would now be lumbered with a large fleet of J10As that would have needed significant upgrading to AESA in order to counter the Rafales. Instead, we had the option for the J10CE that had matured to the extent of being an almost new aircraft, far from the early J10As, and that turned out to be way more capable than the Rafale. The PAF instead opted for the JF17 to be the backbone of its BVR solution, and eventually capitalize on access to the US to upgrade its Viper fleet. Had 9/11 not occurred, we wouldn't have been able to modernise our existing fleet or acquire new airframes.