Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

[ghazi52]

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[ghazi52]

Pakistan Air Force participated in the Golden Jubilee celebrations of Pakistan during 1997, along with the Royal Air Force's aerobatics team 'Red Arrows'.

PAF Academy Risalpur flew a flypast over Fatima Jinnah Park Islamabad, comprising 21 MFI-17 ( Mushshak Training Aircraft); displaying figure of 50 (as seen from ground).

This was a historical event because it was first time ever (and perhaps the last too) that such a large number of Mushshak aircraft flew a flypast close formation, displaying a complicated figure of 50.

This was 24 Nov 1997, RAF team 'Red Arrows' also displayed after this flypast.

 

[ghazi52]

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[Irfan Baloch]

Exclusive

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question for everyone who knows the PAF and those who can make educated guesses and know bits about diplomacy and foreign relations...



our agreements and contracts from the past with USA and our current geopolitical standing....

why shouldn't Pakistan start fielding its F-16s against Chinese jets in its war exercises? India has no such restriction over the use of its American hardware.


fielding Pakistani F-16s against Chinese Flanker derivatives will give Pakistan great opportunity to train its one of the most numerous (70+ examples) jets against the Indian most numerous jets SU 30 MKI.

what is the reality and current status of those restrictions? buying anything from Americans is out of question now and our most advanced block 50s can be serviced by the Turks. Americans know well that we will and have used the F-16s since we don't have enough J-10s against the Indians and expecting us not to use our weapons is a folly. it is very cute and patriotic to think that a lighter JF-17 even in its block 3 version is better than the medium weight Block 52 jet. are the F-16s only relegated to be used for parades and Afghanistan?

rant aside .. what are the repercussions? banning from red flag? no spare parts? economic blockade or American embargo? is there no chance to re-negotiate and get concessions on this restriction?

 

[BlueMarlin]

question for everyone who knows the PAF and those who can make educated guesses and know bits about diplomacy and foreign relations...



our agreements and contracts from the past with USA and our current geopolitical standing....

why shouldn't Pakistan start fielding its F-16s against Chinese jets in its war exercises? India has no such restriction over the use of its American hardware.


fielding Pakistani F-16s against Chinese Flanker derivatives will give Pakistan great opportunity to train its one of the most numerous (70+ examples) jets against the Indian most numerous jets SU 30 MKI.

what is the reality and current status of those restrictions? buying anything from Americans is out of question now and our most advanced block 50s can be serviced by the Turks. Americans know well that we will and have used the F-16s since we don't have enough J-10s against the Indians and expecting us not to use our weapons is a folly. it is very cute and patriotic to think that a lighter JF-17 even in its block 3 version is better than the medium weight Block 52 jet. are the F-16s only relegated to be used for parades and Afghanistan?

rant aside .. what are the repercussions? banning from red flag? no spare parts? economic blockade or American embargo? is there no chance to re-negotiate and get concessions on this restriction?

does it really matter f-16 cant be used in china for exercises? i dont think soo

it terms of capability the j10 is superior and a good example of this is was its role last year, not on the front line.

f16v's are avaliable but the question of how would they work in a multi domain environments is the better question, and the answer to that is not very well.

the f16 can be serviced to an extent by the turks but it still requires the oem's input especially around the engines as the turks have gef110 engines and pakistan the pwf100.

more j10's will naturally come in as more rafales are delivered. the current stock is sufficent for pakistan current's needs to counter the current inventory of indian jets.

the block 3 jf-17 can do things the f16's cant....

personally the f16 will lose relevance quicker than you think.

it will worry the yanks but they wont allow link17 to be implemented so that they can work in the modern air war-fair environments

 

[Oscar]

question for everyone who knows the PAF and those who can make educated guesses and know bits about diplomacy and foreign relations...



our agreements and contracts from the past with USA and our current geopolitical standing....

why shouldn't Pakistan start fielding its F-16s against Chinese jets in its war exercises? India has no such restriction over the use of its American hardware.


fielding Pakistani F-16s against Chinese Flanker derivatives will give Pakistan great opportunity to train its one of the most numerous (70+ examples) jets against the Indian most numerous jets SU 30 MKI.

what is the reality and current status of those restrictions? buying anything from Americans is out of question now and our most advanced block 50s can be serviced by the Turks. Americans know well that we will and have used the F-16s since we don't have enough J-10s against the Indians and expecting us not to use our weapons is a folly. it is very cute and patriotic to think that a lighter JF-17 even in its block 3 version is better than the medium weight Block 52 jet. are the F-16s only relegated to be used for parades and Afghanistan?

rant aside .. what are the repercussions? banning from red flag? no spare parts? economic blockade or American embargo? is there no chance to re-negotiate and get concessions on this restriction?

If the Indians have been fielding against F-16 through the Singaporeans and others - so have you through the Chinese and others of Su-30.

But the Indians fly the MKis differently just as how the PAF flies F-16 different to all.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

If the Indians have been fielding against F-16 through the Singaporeans and others - so have you through the Chinese and others of Su-30.

But the Indians fly the MKis differently just as how the PAF flies F-16 different to all.

indeed. the F-16s from NATO countries are different from the rest of the world and ours are different from Koreans and Middle Eastern ones.
uyes we find a workaround to address the restriction like simulations but nothign beats the real thing (or very close like for like example) and it will be gold if our own F-16s can train against closest SU-30 examples Americans have an agressor squadren of F-A 18 Hornets immitating Mig 29s and even have similar pain scheme bt still their flying is different ..and they ahve found solutions for sure (they exercise with Indians as well)

..for PAF, Maybe Malaysian airfoce? I wonder if Americans will object to that with same intensity? they fly SU-30s and Hornets as well.

since there are only 1 squadren of J-10c and F-16s still form tip of our airforce so it wouldve been great that our F-16 polots got the chance to exercise with Russian origin frontline jets. if this has now all become irrelevant then maybe we need to go back to Americans and tell them to lift these restrictions on F-16s.

 

[ghazi52]

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[ghazi52]

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[Oscar]

indeed. the F-16s from NATO countries are different from the rest of the world and ours are different from Koreans and Middle Eastern ones.
uyes we find a workaround to address the restriction like simulations but nothign beats the real thing (or very close like for like example) and it will be gold if our own F-16s can train against closest SU-30 examples Americans have an agressor squadren of F-A 18 Hornets immitating Mig 29s and even have similar pain scheme bt still their flying is different ..and they ahve found solutions for sure (they exercise with Indians as well)

..for PAF, Maybe Malaysian airfoce? I wonder if Americans will object to that with same intensity? they fly SU-30s and Hornets as well.

since there are only 1 squadren of J-10c and F-16s still form tip of our airforce so it wouldve been great that our F-16 polots got the chance to exercise with Russian origin frontline jets. if this has now all become irrelevant then maybe we need to go back to Americans and tell them to lift these restrictions on F-16s.

indians Rafale’s are currently exercising with the RMAF as we speak.
That relationship is much deeper than Pakistan can achieve

 

[BlueMarlin]

indians Rafale’s are currently exercising with the RMAF as we speak.
That relationship is much deeper than Pakistan can achieve

depends on what’s defined as relationship. air exercises don’t exactly make you exclusive.

the indians are known for doing this all the time in multiple different counties. best not to think too much about it. if not next they’d be rumors of the ordering the brahmos and the tejas.

the Chinese are in the eygpt doesnt make there relationship deep. there site a muppet state but who now knows is behind the strings.

 

[Oscar]

depends on what’s defined as relationship. air exercises don’t exactly make you exclusive.

the indians are known for doing this all the time in multiple different counties. best not to think too much about it. if not next they’d be rumors of the ordering the brahmos and the tejas.

the Chinese are in the eygpt doesnt make there relationship deep. there site a muppet state but who now knows is behind the strings.

Operating the same platforms(MKI & Mig-29) over the decades along with working closely in Pitch Black has given close ties

 

[Yasser76]

indians Rafale’s are currently exercising with the RMAF as we speak.
That relationship is much deeper than Pakistan can achieve

Quite a few ethnic Indians in Malaysia but correct me if I am wrong but they were very close poltically to Pakistan and Turkiye when IK was in power and I think have even purchased Pakistani defence products. I think our relationship with them defence wise in on par with Indias. Rafales there were a convieniant stop over on the way back fro Pitch Black in Australia, so why not do an exercise, and of course I think India helps the with their SU-30 fleet

 

[BlueMarlin]

Operating the same platforms(MKI & Mig-29) over the decades along with working closely in Pitch Black has given close ties

now lets turn that into a gain for Pakistan, how it it help that the Indians, Pakistan biggest thorn is doing exercise with the Malaysians a friend of Pakistan?


the mki's and mig29's are as capable as the f16's now single use standalone and highly understood by the other side especially since 2019. the only thing the f16 has a advantage of the the aim120 and even now it cant come close to firing them.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

perhaps I failed to convey my point. we operate a large fleet of F-16s and they are essentially form our frontlines of defence and offence operations. it will be great if our F-16 pilots get the chance to fly (not simulations) against jets (varients, different specs but essentially same family) that are operated by the Indians and specially the ones that are most in numbers (SU-30).
but maybe the modern simulations have made it less important I dont know, but I know that we are not there yet where a real flight experience gets completely replaced by VR or a simulation rig. before someone mentions J-10C .. yes we got them but how many?

F-16s do get to train in Middle east but they only do it against other Western jets only PAF has managed that restriction from Americans very well but given current geo political situation and American "appriciation" , requesting some concession wouldve helped.
unless our friends here are adament that our 75 something F-16s will "NEVER EVER" be fielded against SU-30 and "WILL NEVER EVER" be brought in the front lines because we got 20 or something J-10C then fine.
I wont bring this up agian.