Tang dynasty battles with the caliphate

Is that why his mother tongue is Arabic? Why would a non-Arab in Turkiye speak Arabic? Why are his family members claiming Arab ancestry?

Lineage passes through the father, and his father an Oghuz Turk, while his mother may have been Arab

Y-DNA haplogroups pass strictly from father to son

I have no problem with Arabs.
The nations that have made the greatest contribution to Islam are Arabs and Turks.
 
K2a lineage stayed firmly rooted in East Asia. It evolved into the mega-clade NO .From NO, Haplogroup O emerged which became the direct paternal anchor for modern Han Chinese

K2b migrated, split and mutated into Haplogroup P-M45 which eventually gave rise to R (Europe, South Asia, Central Asia) and Q (Native Americans )

Chinese and Turks are from K2a and K2b brothers

And the Finns, Estonians, and many Northern Russians were also descended from the K2a, and they are even blonder than the Germanic people.

So any Y-DNA can shift its appearance when they have a generational interbreeding with the local people.
 
And the Finns, Estonians, and many Northern Russians were also descended from the K2a, and they are even blonder than the Germanic people.

Turkic Uygur Girl in China
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Finnish Girl
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Turkic Khazar Girl
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Turkic Kyrgyz Girl
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Lineage passes through the father, and his father an Oghuz Turk, while his mother may have been Arab

Y-DNA haplogroups pass strictly from father to son

I have no problem with Arabs.
The nations that have made the greatest contribution to Islam are Arabs and Turks.

Pretty much yes, but does Persian, and at present, the only Nuclear power in Muslim world, Pakistan, is important too, amids more aggressive Israel
 
Well, the Uyghurs carry both K2a and K2b, also J from Arabs.

Most of Turkic Uyghur , Kyrgyz carry R1a and r1b from PM-45 ( ptoto Turkic Peoples ) from the K2b as like most of the Turks

R1a : Most of Russians , Poles ,etc
R1b : Most of Germans , British , French , Itaians , Spaniards , etc
 
Pretty much yes, but does Persian, and at present, the only Nuclear power in Muslim world, Pakistan, is important too, amids more aggressive Israel

Then let them take the initiative and contribute to Islam a little.

Turks have been fighting for 1000 years... now it's Pakistan and Indonesia's turn. We Turks are tired of fighting alone.

The religion of Islam is for all of you, let's get to work!

Perhaps the Mecca agreement will be a starting point in this regard.
 
Someone mentioned arabs were deciding factor in the battle of talas that is false.

Arabs fought Chinese in battle of aksu and lost pretty badly. It was the Turks betraying the Chinese that allowed the arabs to win.

Without Turkish betrayal, the arabs would not have won the battle and thats just my personal opinion.
 
Most of Turkic Uyghur , Kyrgyz carry R1a and r1b from PM-45 ( ptoto Turkic Peoples ) from the K2b as like most of the Turks

R1a : Most of Russians , Poles ,etc
R1b : Most of Germans , British , French , Itaians , Spaniards , etc

Uyghurs are mixed, and the eastern Uyghurs carry lots of haplogroup O/Q/C.

Only the western Uyghurs carry more R1a/R1b/J.


u.jpg
 
Without Turkish betrayal, the arabs would not have won the battle and thats just my personal opinion.

In our Turkish history, just as we were about to capture Vienna,
but 40,000 Crimean Tatars betrayed the Turks by refusing to fight against the Polish forces. The Polish forces then attacked from behind with heavy artillery, inflicting heavy losses on the Ottoman Army

and this led to the Great Turkish War, a 16-year conflict involving against Russian, Polish, German, Italian, Spanish, and Hungarian armies in 6 fronts between 1683 and 1699

If we had taken Vienna, we would have conquered Europe in the 17th century
 
Someone mentioned arabs were deciding factor in the battle of talas that is false.

Arabs fought Chinese in battle of aksu and lost pretty badly. It was the Turks betraying the Chinese that allowed the arabs to win.

Without Turkish betrayal, the arabs would not have won the battle and thats just my personal opinion.
Historians do not agree with your "personal opinion".

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Battle of Aksu (717) was mostly non-Arab.

AI confirms this as well if you ask it.

Also you are forgetting that those battles took place in China's backyard - almost 15.000 km away from the Arab heartlands at a time when Arabs controlled the world's largest empire (Umayyad) that spanned from Portugal/France/Spain in the West to Western China.

As I wrote Arabs defeated/faught almost all the world powers during that era (Byzantine/Rome, Persia, Frankish Empire) on 3 continents (Asia, Africa and Europe) and faced several internal Arab conflicts.

Arabs even tried to conquer modern-day India which was a futile/unrealistic affair for the same reasons above.

All of that occurred during the same timespan more or less.

It is remarkable and a sign of the strength of the Arabs that they defeated the Tang Empire during the Battle of Talas where 90% of the army was Arab and the commanders Arabs.

Chinese empires never ventured this far West in comparison.

Mongols ventured West long after (some 500 years later) but their rule and presence was very short-lived - less than 50 years.

I believe those far away Arab Muslim conquests were mostly due to Islamic zeal. Because there was little to gain in Central Asia/Xinjiang in terms of resources and the trade routes (ancient maritime and land routes) with East Asia, South Asia and South East Asia were already dominated by Arab merchants and traders long before Islam.

Even after winning the battle of Talas, the Arabs (Abbasid Caliphate) did not venture east but consolidated themselves in the already conquered Central Asia.

It would not have been possible to conquer China either due to distance, geography (East China is protected by 1000's of km of desert, mountains, Himalayas in the South and ocean in the east), China's population size and power. Which is why I don't think that anybody other than Mongols (who lived next door) ever conquered China fully.
 
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Historians do not agree with your "personal opinion".

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


Battle of Aksu (717) was mostly non-Arab.

AI confirms this as well if you ask it.

Also you are forgetting that those battles took place in China's backyard - almost 15.000 km away from the Arab heartlands at a time when Arabs controlled the world's largest empire (Umayyad) that spanned from Portugal/France/Spain in the West to Western China.

As I wrote Arabs defeated/faught almost all the world powers during that era (Byzantine/Rome, Persia, Frankish Empire) on 3 continents (Asia, Africa and Europe) and faced several internal Arab conflicts.

Arabs even tried to conquer modern-day India which was a futile/unrealistic affair for the same reasons above.

All of that occurred during the same timespan more or less.

It is remarkable and a sign of the strength of the Arabs that they defeated the Tang Empire during the Battle of Talas where 90% of the army was Arab and the commanders Arabs.

Chinese empires never ventured this far West in comparison.

Mongols ventured West long after (some 500 years later) but their rule and presence was very short-lived - less than 50 years.

I believe those far away Arab Muslim conquests were mostly due to Islamic zeal. Because there was little to gain in Central Asia/Xinjiang in terms of resources and the trade routes (ancient maritime and land routes) with East Asia, South Asia and South East Asia were already dominated by Arab merchants and traders long before Islam.

Even after winning the battle of Talas, the Arabs (Abbasid Caliphate) did not venture east but consolidated itself in the already conquered Central Asia.


Before the Arab expansion, the Tang Dynasty has been allied with Persia, and most likely the two nations did share a borderline.

And a famous Chinese poet was even born in Kyrgyzstan.


He lived during the era of the Battle of Talas.

After that war campaign, China's influence in the Central/West Asia was pretty much over.
 
Historians do not agree with your "personal opinion".

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


Battle of Aksu (717) was mostly non-Arab.

AI confirms this as well if you ask it.

Also you are forgetting that those battles took place in China's backyard - almost 15.000 km away from the Arab heartlands at a time when Arabs controlled the world's largest empire (Umayyad) that spanned from Portugal/France/Spain in the West to Western China.

As I wrote Arabs defeated/faught almost all the world powers during that era (Byzantine/Rome, Persia, Frankish Empire) on 3 continents (Asia, Africa and Europe) and faced several internal Arab conflicts.

Arabs even tried to conquer modern-day India which was a futile/unrealistic affair for the same reasons above.

All of that occurred during the same timespan more or less.

It is remarkable and a sign of the strength of the Arabs that they defeated the Tang Empire during the Battle of Talas where 90% of the army was Arab and the commanders Arabs.

Chinese empires never ventured this far West in comparison.

Mongols ventured West long after (some 500 years later) but their rule and presence was very short-lived - less than 50 years.

I believe those far away Arab Muslim conquests were mostly due to Islamic zeal. Because there was little to gain in Central Asia/Xinjiang in terms of resources and the trade routes (ancient maritime and land routes) with East Asia, South Asia and South East Asia were already dominated by Arab merchants and traders long before Islam.

Even after winning the battle of Talas, the Arabs (Abbasid Caliphate) did not venture east but consolidated themselves in the already conquered Central Asia.

It would not have been possible to conquer China either due to distance, geography (East China is protected by 1000's of km of desert, mountains, Himalayas in the South and ocean in the east), China's population size and power. Which is why I don't think that anybody other than Mongols (who lived next door) ever conquered China fully.

When there was no betrayl at the battle of aksu the caliphate did not do very well. Talas is a tale of betrayal and no one in china see it as a tale of fighting your best and losing.
 
People keep repeating this myth of “Arab armies conquering half the world,” but the actual history is way more complicated.

The Umayyad military machine was mostly non‑Arab. In North Africa and Iberia, the fighting force was overwhelmingly Berber, not Arab. Those same Berbers later revolted because of unequal treatment, heavy taxation, and discrimination ... and that revolt is one of the major reasons the western Umayyad domains collapsed. If the empire was truly an “Arab super‑army,” it wouldn’t have depended on non‑Arab manpower to survive.

And the idea that the Umayyads steamrolled every major power is just wrong. They lost repeatedly to the Byzantines, especially in Anatolia and around Constantinople. They also failed to hold territory in France, losing to the Franks at Tours. Their expansion was fast, but their ability to keep territory was limited.

As for the Battle of Talas — it wasn’t some clean “Arab victory over China.” The deciding factor was the Karluk Turks switching sides mid‑battle, attacking the Tang army from behind. That’s what broke the Chinese line. Without the Turkic defection, the Abbasid forces would not have won. Even Chinese and Arab sources acknowledge this. Talas is remembered mainly because it marked the moment Turkic groups aligned more closely with the Islamic world.

So the narrative of “Arabs alone defeated Rome, Persia, China, and Europe” ignores the actual mechanics:

  • Berbers carried the western conquests
  • Persians and Mawali carried the eastern administration
  • Turks became the backbone of the military later
  • And internal revolts from these same groups helped end the dynasty
The Umayyad expansion was real, but it was never a purely Arab project. It was a multi‑ethnic empire held together by non‑Arab soldiers, non‑Arab administrators, and non‑Arab converts — and it fell apart largely because those groups were treated unequally.

Now, how the Umayyads ended:They lasted 89 years (661–750 CE).

The Abbasids overthrew them in 750 CE, killing most of the Umayyad elite. Only one prince escaped to Spain, forming the separate Córdoba Umayyad Emirate.

And here’s the part people never talk about:Under the Abbasids, Turks rose to power — even when they started as slaves (ghilman). Their military skill, discipline, and loyalty made them the backbone of the Abbasid army. Over time, Turkic commanders became so influential that they effectively ran the empire’s military and politics. This eventually led to:

  • The rise of Turkic dynasties
  • The Seljuks
  • The Mamluks (many of whom were Turkic)
  • And later the Ottomans
So ironically, the collapse of the Umayyads opened the door for Turks to become the dominant force in the Islamic world.

As for the Berbers .. what happened to them? after being mistreated by the Umayyads, they revolted, formed their own states, and rejected Arab identity. They kept their own languages, cultures, and ethnic identities. That’s why modern North Africans overwhelmingly identify as Amazigh, Kabyle, Riffian, Chaoui, Tuareg, etc., not Arab.

On the Tang side, you had:

  • Karluk Turks
  • Other Turkic auxiliaries
  • Tang Chinese regulars
On the Abbasid side, you had:

  • Turkic contingents
  • Local Transoxianian forces
  • Only a minority of actual Arab troops

Damn this is cold. No Arab victory. :ROFLMAO:
 

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