The Case for Pakistan as a Civilizational State

[Ali_Baba]

By far the best walk around of the site ever, I watched this last night and I learnt a lot from it. I recommend all to watch this if you have not been to the site at all.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Look at the arguments here.......... someone is reading threads here


@Master Chief @clutch @hussain0216 @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakistanLVR







Note how they rely on their historical failures as a type of WOKE / dei argument, that it's historically due as compensation.... not belonging to them


The rig veda is NOT very Hindu tbh look how it's claimed, slimey deception relying on ignorance

hence creating separation to amorphous Hinduism should be looked at


Any Hindu claims the indus, this is explicitly said

Essentially the most articulate argument is uttered through gritted teeth and a forced smile..... It's pre islamic, it's kind of linked to associated Hindu deities so it's ours, the location and continuity of the people is incidental....

This is a man, no parent should ever trust their child or their daughter with in any scenario ! He has all the hallmarks of a man who looks like a molester ...

Looking at that video, that is what my brain walks away with.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Look at the arguments here.......... someone is reading threads here


@Master Chief @clutch @hussain0216 @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakistanLVR







Note how they rely on their historical failures as a type of WOKE / dei argument, that it's historically due as compensation.... not belonging to them


The rig veda is NOT very Hindu tbh look how it's claimed, slimey deception relying on ignorance

hence creating separation to amorphous Hinduism should be looked at


Any Hindu claims the indus, this is explicitly said

Essentially the most articulate argument is uttered through gritted teeth and a forced smile..... It's pre islamic, it's kind of linked to associated Hindu deities so it's ours, the location and continuity of the people is incidental....

Can Italians not claim Ancient Roman heritage as they are not the same religion as the Ancient Romans? Can the Greeks not claim Ancient Greek heritage as they are not the same religion as Ancient Greeks? These notions are retarded and ridiculous at best.

indians claiming that Pakistanis cannot claim the great ancient civilizations of the Indus Valley, Mohenjendaro and Harappa as we are not the same religion as our ancestors who built those civilizations are also retarded and ridiculous. This is a painful cope for indians as they want to lay claim to those ancient great civilizations that the ancestors of modern-day Pakistanis built but can't as modern-day indians have 0 connections to them. This is an EXTREMELY bitter pill for indian kind to swallow.

 

[Master Chief]

Can Italians not claim Ancient Roman heritage as they are not the same religion as the Ancient Romans? Can the Greeks not claim Ancient Greek heritage as they are not the same religion as Ancient Greeks? These notions are retarded and ridiculous at best.

indians claiming that Pakistanis cannot claim the great ancient civilizations of the Indus Valley, Mohenjendaro and Harappa as we are not the same religion as our ancestors who built those civilizations are also retarded and ridiculous. This is a painful cope for indians as they want to lay claim to those ancient great civilizations that the ancestors of modern-day Pakistanis built but can't as modern-day indians have 0 connections to them. This is an EXTREMELY bitter pill for indian kind to swallow.

They rode elephants while we built cities. The pain is understandable.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

They rode elephants while we built cities. The pain is understandable.

Apparently they weren't even good at riding elephants either.

 

[Master Chief]

Apparently they weren't even good at riding elephants either.

Indeed. A highly unpredictable and stupid (for warfare purposes) animal that often caused more damage to one's own infantry than the enemy's. Probably used best in this region (elsewhere, Hannibal's deployments were mostly exaggerated and Scipio Africanus had an effective counter strategy against him) but even then, not very effective overall.

 

[El Sidd]

Indeed. A highly unpredictable and stupid (for warfare purposes) animal that often caused more damage to one's own infantry than the enemy's. Probably used best in this region (elsewhere, Hannibal's deployments were mostly exaggerated and Scipio Africanus had an effective counter strategy against him) but even then, not very effective overall.

That's simply not true. The psychological effect of a war elephant in battlefields is a documented fact.

 

[ThunderCat]

There's no evidence of any such language being spoken in a codified manner prior to the Mughal era.

Why? Just because the name "urdu" did not exist prior to the 1780s? Did you not read the quotes I pasted above? Are you telling me this linguist is wrong. He even clearly states the name "urdu" did not exist for 750 years: https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...the-language/814D9AFC0EBB3ADBB71B4CCD26FAF2D5

 

[El Sidd]

Why? Just because the name "urdu" did not exist prior to the 1780s? Did you not read the quotes I pasted above? Are you telling me this linguist is wrong. He even clearly states the name "urdu" did not exist for 750 years: https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...the-language/814D9AFC0EBB3ADBB71B4CCD26FAF2D5

None of it existed 750 years ago. It's a much recent language.

 

[ThunderCat]

None of it existed 750 years ago. It's a much recent language.

Wow a random forum user dismissing a professional linguist. What a joke. It existed for nearly a thousand years.

 

[El Sidd]

Wow a random forum user dismissing a professional linguist. What a joke. It existed for nearly a thousand years.

Provide evidence that it did exist in 1026AD.

 

[ThunderCat]

Provide evidence that it did exist in 1026AD.

His research & conclusions is sufficient enough and he's not alone. Logic tells me to take his findings rather than a random forum poster who wishes it was otherwise.

What is your proof that it didn't exist back then? We have poems of this language predating 1780 despite not dating as far back then but other sources claim there are poems dating as far back as the 900s.

 

[El Sidd]

His research & conclusions is sufficient enough and he's not alone. Logic tells me to take his findings rather than a random forum poster who wishes it was otherwise.

What is your proof that it didn't exist back then? We have poems of this language predating 1780 despite not dating as far back then but other sources claim there are poems dating as far back as the 900s.

If what you postulate is true, provide one instance of historical record of any event in Urdu language that predates the Moguls.

 

[peagle]

Excellent article. Very professionally compiled record of the salient themes pertaining to this topic. I have very marginal and cosmetic disagreements with some elements (e.g. for me, Pakistan is the primary legacy nation state of the IVC and India is only secondary. I don't regard them as having equal status in this regard).

Well done to the author/compiler.

I didn't even read it, i'm just happy this stupid nation called Pakistanis are at last thinking clearly and waking up. Points such as yours will be ironed out in the process.

Good catch.

 

[peagle]

Well Iran was never colonized. They kept their culture and system for a longer time.
And that explains why even to this day they don't get along with western powers and facing sanctions and war. They are very proud people who cant be subdued. Not like pakistan where US and other western powers has a huge influence in decision making.

If you want to be technical.
Do you think the Arabs and Mongols went to Iran for a package holiday?
Colonised isn't just about European, that's lazy and convenient. There's a massive span of history before the European conquests.
It's any occupation.

Then you also have the Greeks and the Turks i suppose.