Makkah Defence Alliance: Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, news & updates

[mythbuster]

Pick yo side

There's no dignity in being killed like a rat .

 

[Arsenal Caan]

“Faith is Yemeni and wisdom is Yemeni”
The most famous narration is:
«أَتَاكُمْ أَهْلُ الْيَمَنِ، هُمْ أَرَقُّ أَفْئِدَةً وَأَلْيَنُ قُلُوبًا، الإِيمَانُ يَمَانٍ وَالْحِكْمَةُ يَمَانِيَةٌ»

Doesn't matter if Aale Saud or Gulf or Pakistan or even the entire world is against them.
Yemenis will prevail.

 

[Master Chief]

I am discussing only matters of military strategy, not political issues. Based on currently available information, Israel has not intervened—either directly or indirectly—in the Yemeni civil war; therefore, it falls outside the scope of this analysis.

I analyze only military strategies, not political stances; I personally hold no position on these events.

Throughout the course of human civilization, history has been written by the victors. There is no such thing as a perfect moral judgment; what is termed "good" or "evil" is merely a matter of differing perspectives held by different people.

Let me remind you:
The current Syrian regime is viewed by many nations as a group of "terrorists," yet this has not prevented many Pakistanis on this forum from supporting them.
From a broader historical perspective, almost all "successful groups" in the world were regarded as "rebels" by the mainstream society of their time during their early stages of development (before the concept of "terrorist" even existed)—including the Communist Party of China.

As for the impact of this war on China, it is not appropriate to discuss it here.

I wouldn't look at the issue that way. In fact, I believe Pakistan is already making a huge mistake by transporting weapons to Aden.

Proxy wars: When the masterminds behind the scenes step in to fight directly, they have already lost. Pakistan is currently adding fuel to the fire, accelerating Saudi Arabia's defeat in this conflict.

Let me cite a few real-world examples:

The Chinese Civil War (1945–1949): The US government strongly supported the ROC government and its military. However, much of the vast quantity of advanced weaponry supplied by the US ended up—intact—in the hands of the CCP's PLA. This bolstered the PLA's strength, ultimately leading to the CCP's victory in the civil war.

Afghanistan: The US-backed Afghan government forces received massive shipments of weapons, yet a significant portion fell into Taliban hands. This steadily increased the Taliban's military capabilities...

Much of the weaponry and equipment Saudi Arabia supplied to the Yemeni government forces has ended up with the Houthi rebels, thereby enhancing the Houthis' combat capabilities. If the MDA continues to provide large quantities of advanced arms to the Yemeni government forces, the Houthis' combat capabilities will only grow stronger...

Once the Houthis' combat capabilities reach a certain level, even if the MDA nations intervene directly, victory in the war is by no means guaranteed. ------ You need to understand that each of the three MDA nations faces major military challenges of its own; they cannot commit their entire armed forces to the conflict in Yemen.

It is "people"—not weapons—that ultimately determine the course of a war. When "people" are plagued by critical, fatal flaws, even the finest weaponry cannot save the situation.

Great points but sometimes rebellions are also crushed decisively. For every CCP or Taliban victory due to advanced arms being stolen, we could discuss countless cases from the last hundred years of crushing defeats despite the acquisition of such arms.

The "will to win" is questionable for the Americans in both the cases you have cited. One could argue that they simply cut their losses (substantial as they were) on far flung battlefields and fled back home many 1000s of miles away. Alexander the Great was no different millenia earlier. Logistics played as great a role here as did anything else.

KSA is not some far flung realm. It borders Yemen. Iran is, of course, also geographically somewhat close to Yemen but Iran now has its own problems. Iran already can no longer support Hamas and Hezbollah in any meaningful ways - granted they are further away than Yemen is. I'm not so sure that the MDA signatories are the ones who will struggle to support the necessary logistics channels in this context.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

The Iranian revolution began from it's leader coming from France, supported by the soviets, let's not rewrite history as well

Soviets?
Boy if you knew...
He was accepted by the US as someone they could work with... assurances were provided via third party and Iranian military was stopped from making a coup.

The revolution could have taken Iran towards Soviets. And assurances were that He'd keep Iran non aligned....

Nkw, Why would you want to interject that?

 

[Michael]

Great points but sometimes rebellions are also crushed decisively. For every CCP or Taliban victory due to advanced arms being stolen, we could discuss countless cases from the last hundred years of crushing defeats despite the acquisition of such arms.

The "will to win" is questionable for the Americans in both the cases you have cited. One could argue that they simply cut their losses (substantial as they were) on far flung battlefields and fled back home many 1000s of miles away. Alexander the Great was no different millenia earlier. Logistics played as great a role here as did anything else.

KSA is not some far flung realm. It borders Yemen. Iran is, of course, also geographically somewhat close to Yemen but Iran now has its own problems. Iran already can no longer support Hamas and Hezbollah in any meaningful ways - granted they are further away than Yemen is. I'm not so sure that the MDA signatories are the ones who will struggle to support the necessary logistics channels in this context.

Let me first answer your initial question. Modern military logistics—or logistics systems in general—exhibit a counterintuitive phenomenon: distance is not the primary factor determining cost.
For instance:
Shipping a batch of supplies from Chengdu, China, to Karachi costs significantly more than shipping the same cargo from Shanghai. The fundamental reason for this is that maritime transport is far less expensive than land transport. Even within China, the cost of transporting large quantities of coal from Xinjiang to cities on the southeastern coast is higher than the cost of shipping it there from the United States.
Admittedly, there are differences in transit times. However, when weighing transit time against economic cost, people generally prefer maritime transport.
======================================================
With Saudi assistance, the Yemeni government forces possess a weaponry system far superior to that of the Houthi rebels. Yet, they have suffered widespread routs. This clearly demonstrates serious internal organizational and management deficiencies within their ranks. If the Saudi-led coalition continues to support them in this manner, the result will simply be a further strengthening of the Houthis.
This has fully proven the utter failure of Saudi Arabia's "proxy war" strategy. Should Pakistan and Turkey intervene, it would only further confirm Saudi Arabia's complete incompetence. ------Saudi Arabia initiated a proxy war, yet neither its proxies nor the kingdom itself could secure a victory; now, it is forced to beg its allies to join the fray. This is an act of sheer cowardice.
However, even if Pakistan and Turkey were to intervene militarily, could Saudi Arabia—or the Saudi-backed Yemeni government forces—actually win this war?

There is absolutely no chance of that!

Undoubtedly, a direct military intervention by Pakistan and Turkey would deal a heavy blow to the Houthis. But who would carry out the final phase of the war: clearing the battlefield and securing the territory? That is a critically dangerous undertaking. ------ Turkey and Pakistan doing this job? Only if they had lost their minds. Saudi Arabia lacks the capability. The Saudi-backed Yemeni government forces are even less capable.
After some time passes, the Houthis will continue...

Who wins?

Here is another point to consider.
At their core, no human being wishes to be controlled or swayed by others. Any acceptance of external control or influence is merely a temporary measure driven by the instinct for survival; the moment individuals gain the capacity to stand on their own, their first move is to shake off that external control.
Countless events throughout the history of human civilization have amply demonstrated this truth—one need only look back at similar historical precedents.
Therefore, should the Yemeni government forces decisively defeat the Houthis and secure full control over Yemen, their first move would be to break free from Saudi influence. By the same token, if the Houthis were to ultimately triumph and gain total control of the country, their first move would be to break free from Iran.

Does Pakistan really want to get involved in this game?

 

[Pakistani Dragon]

Emirates is the source of the greatest poison in the Muslim world today. The rascals have done harm to Pakistan and multiple other nations, except India and Israel. You just don't see it for what it is. Though I will admit, we ourselves are partly blameworthy for our own demise in the Gulf. It falls on us to undo this damage.

I don't think so.

The Emirates is only trying to increase its "strategic depth". They're wedged between three larger Muslim countries: Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Iran, and their interests keep clashing with these three.

Here's the thing:

The three have been using the UAE for decades for their own strategic purposes, but now that the UAE has also started expanding its sphere of influence, the three don't like it.

At least Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have acknowledged the UAE's concerns, and both have taken a step back instead of being hostile towards the UAE. Iran, on the other hand, has gone all bonkers against them. It treats the Emiratis as just another Arab country that the Iranians can use as cannon fodder to expand their own strategic depth.

 

[r3alist]

Soviets?
Boy if you knew...
He was accepted by the US as someone they could work with... assurances were provided via third party and Iranian military was stopped from making a coup.

The revolution could have taken Iran towards Soviets. And assurances were that He'd keep Iran non aligned....

Nkw, Why would you want to interject that?

The soviets estimated the ayatollah would be an anti western group, and that was to their strategic benefit Vs the pro west shah, events proved them exactly right.

Perhaps the west had another plan as well

 

[Pakistani Dragon]

There's no dignity in being killed like a rat .

Not even a rat.

Khamenei Sr. was killed like a dog in his own office, in his own country. He had no military or intelligence service to protect him.

I’d say even Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein got more dignified endings — at least they had the courtesy of a firefight or a courtroom before facing their fate. Khamenei Sr. couldn’t even manage that. For someone who spent decades surrounded by military and intelligence services, his final chapter was remarkably underwhelming.

 

[shapurzolaktaf]

There's no dignity in being killed like a rat .

Who dies like rats? team epstein members or team resistance?

 

[Pakistani Dragon]

The soviets estimated the ayatollah would be an anti western group, and that was to their strategic benefit Vs the pro west shah, events proved them exactly right.

Perhaps the west had another plan as well

Let's also not forget that the anti-Western Ayatollah Khomeini took refuge in France before returning to Iran to lead his revolution.

 

[shapurzolaktaf]

Pick yo side

They forgot to put the Jewish duo Kushner & witkoff and kafir-warrior hegseth in the pro-Saudi camp.

 

[mythbuster]

Let's also not forget that the anti-Western Ayatollah Khomeini took refuge in France before returning to Iran to lead his revolution.

Ain't it strange that all the revolutionaries take refuge in the west when haunted by the regimes in their own countries...even Hoochie Min took refuge in France.

 

[shapurzolaktaf]

Not even a rat.

Khamenei Sr. was killed like a dog in his own office, in his own country. He had no military or intelligence service to protect him.

I’d say even Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein got more dignified endings — at least they had the courtesy of a firefight or a courtroom before facing their fate. Khamenei Sr. couldn’t even manage that. For someone who spent decades surrounded by military and intelligence services, his final chapter was remarkably underwhelming.

more dignified ending? which philosophy/religion/sect are you following?

 

[mythbuster]

more dignified ending? which philosophy/religion/sect are you following?

Got to admit this is worse ending though the difference is that of few degrees

 

[Americano]

Got to admit this is worse ending though the difference is that of few degrees

USA's enemies usually come to very undignified ends: