Federal cabinet gives nod to imposition of emergency in KP; summary sent to president

[I*R*A]

Pakistan was created by its people, under civilian leadership. The founders, the people and the civilian leadership have chosen time and again for the country to be a federation under a democratic form of government. The colonial army, bureucracy and judiciary played NO role in the creation of Pakistan. There is nothing more to debate on this topic.

You have a contemptous view of the people of Pakistan , which I don't share and you ignore the deliberate derailment of Constitutionalism and democracy by the army. How are people supposed to build a good system when the army is constantly sabotaging it ?

There are no perfect civilians who can build you a perfect democracy on day 1. That is an absurd expectation meant to facilitate autocrats. The Bengalis, who kicked out the autocrats in 1971, are doing much better than Pakistan today in health, education, literacy, economy, polity.

Another discredited idea you seem to be recycling is "technocrat rule". We have seen many technocratic setups flop in the country, just like the dictators, because they lack support from the people and waste their entire tenure seeking legitimacy, something an elected politician already possesses.

What we were, what we wanted to be and what we turned out ... all three do not align.

Do you think people of Pakistan chose Sharifs and Zardaris in the past and the present, fully well aware, knowingly and without any undue influence? Remove the military interference, do you think current day Pakistanis are capable of making rational choice and then hold them accountable if they do not perform? Slogans and speeches in streets vs what they do inside assemblies do not match, never did, including PTI.

Build a system from scratch, educate, train, groom and then select them for this job. The country needs to get rid of political filth, elite capture and constant meddling. Political parties have failed, institutions have failed, judiciary has failed, all and everyone has turned out to be corrupt and compromised. PTI are no angels. Each and everyone disregard merit.

It is a job and a responsibility to govern Pakistan, not a privilege and right because you are from family of sharifs and zardaris or a super star.

The longer we waste time on this democracy drama, the more we waste our resources and remain lost and directionless. They all need to die for a better Pakistan and its generations.

 

[prothought]

Since there are almost NO Irani IRGC supporters beside their own IT propaganda cell so the Imranist cult have stepped up to fill that role of true 100% pure Irani breed IRGC supporters. Alot of Pakistanis be like, saaar I am Irani and I 100% stand with IRGC while the real Iranians be like shut up p2ki.
Iran and its proxies have only provided justification for Israel's invasion of Palestinian land. IRGC real agenda is to replace Sunni dominance in the region.

You got the point bro. We have some namak-haram Pakistanis who are more loyal to Irani mullahs than their own motherland. Most of these yo*thia youtubers are actually the poodles serving IRGC and mullahs.

Much of the issue in KPK, Balochistan, and GB is due to IRGC trained terrorists of BLF, Zanibiyoon and Fatimiyoon. Heck the IRGC goons used to have deeprooted nexus with underworld in Karachi too.

These evil mullahs of Iran and goons of IRGC are not lesser enemies of Pakistan than Modi's Hindutva terrorists.

 

[I*R*A]

- India is 100% a democracy, just not a good example of one hence they're a shithole but they are indeed a democracy. Their military is very similar to ours and never did martial law. The point is, their people are more free than us and its given net positive for their economy and life, not negative.

"About 40% to 44% of sitting Members of Parliament (MPs) in India have declared criminal cases against them, according to reports by the poll-rights body Association for Democratic Reforms (ADR)."

Why would I want this democracy?

- To do that in the first place you will have to let the people go and have their democracy. They will have to go through the rebuilding phase as the grassroot politics return and it will take you 10-15 years to see the first leaders starting to pop up.

For example, IK's first ever federal government was like 80% hand-picked lotay from PPP and PMLN. People rightly criticise this but they forget that PTI student leaders were still in their 20s at this point. Even Sohail Afridi was a kid. It takes time to build up.

It's like you are sick and you need to take medicine but you're holding off because it will initially cause your fever to go even higher. Because we're scared of that, we say koi nahi, martial law lag jaye baar baar, khair hay.

If IK would have preferred presidential system that is fine by me too, but wo bhi civilian system hi hui na. Fauj would have still interfered and put their Yes-Man on it.

It is either Riyasat e Madina or democracy and politics. Both can not happen simultaneously.

 

[flyingorca]

In a nutshell, PTI goons/Taliban terrorists want those times back when they used to have undocumented entry/exit to freely smuggle stuff/drugs and dollars across Pakistan-Afghan international border.

That will never happen again. Anyone entering into Pakistan must have proper travel documents. That's it. All these smugglers and terrorists will die down as the time passes.

Just keeping those restrictions imposed will cause a silent death to those mafias and terrorists.

I’m also curious to know PTI’s official position on Afghanistan’s stance on the Durand Line and its claims over nearly two-thirds of Pakistan’s territory.
It’s like having a next-door neighbor who claims your house belongs to them, yet you keep calling them your brothers.
Is PTI not concerned about this issue? Their own province is being claimed by someome else and you failed to address it????

 

[flyingorca]

It is either Riyasat e Madina or democracy and politics. Both can not happen simultaneously.

You know whats funny. During 2014 London mayer elections, Imran Khan was advocating for zio Zac Goldsmith and was convincing Pakistani communities in London that if you support Zac, Allah will be very happy
I just have to find that video.

 

[flyingorca]

Pakistan was created by its people, under civilian leadership. The founders, the people and the civilian leadership have chosen time and again for the country to be a federation under a democratic form of government. The colonial army, bureucracy and judiciary played NO role in the creation of Pakistan. There is nothing more to debate on this topic.

You have a contemptous view of the people of Pakistan , which I don't share and you ignore the deliberate derailment of Constitutionalism and democracy by the army. How are people supposed to build a good system when the army is constantly sabotaging it ?

There are no perfect civilians who can build you a perfect democracy on day 1. That is an absurd expectation meant to facilitate autocrats. The Bengalis, who kicked out the autocrats in 1971, are doing much better than Pakistan today in health, education, literacy, economy, polity.

Another discredited idea you seem to be recycling is "technocrat rule". We have seen many technocratic setups flop in the country, just like the dictators, because they lack support from the people and waste their entire tenure seeking legitimacy, something an elected politician already possesses.

Sir, please dont be shy to say that it was British Raj who created both India and Pakistan.

 

[Cipher212]

Here are list of TTP demands.

Pakistan Army is not compromising on any of these demands.

I just need to understand what PTI peace talks were about that they were so convinced that if Imrand Khan returns all these issues would go away.
Dont you think that when you are trying to convince your voters you would disclose clear outline of peaceful resolution which PTI keeps on bragging as it has the perfect solution? What is it is what I am trying to understand.
So far I only hear "peaceful negotiation" is the only solution but what the f is it?

The least thing PTI could have done is stopping its brainrott supporters from sympathizing with TTP and spreading propaganda against its own Army which only gives more encouragement to these bast2rds.


Btw Pakistan Army has made clear cut conditions that they wont allow TTP to have its own autonomy.



• Reversal of the FATA Merger: This was the biggest sticking point. The TTP demanded that the former Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) be un-merged from the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KP) province. They wanted it restored to its semi-autonomous status, which would allow them to effectively control the region.

• Withdrawal of the Pakistani Military: The TTP demanded the complete pullout of Pakistan's armed forces from the border areas along the Durand Line.

• Imposition of Sharia Law: The group demanded the strict implementation of their interpretation of Islamic law (Sharia) in the Malakand division and other border regions of KP.
• Release of Prisoners & Amnesty: They demanded the release of hundreds of detained TTP commanders and fighters.

These are their demands in broad terms. The exact implementation of how a peaceful solution could be reached has never been explored in depth. There was one point where Pakistan was getting close to some agreement in the late 2000s and Americans drone strike'd the guy we were talking to. The brunt of the fallout of course, went on Pakistan.

FATA Merger - Could honestly be reversed. What is the big deal about it? These people are called tribal for a reason. Keep them separate from the more urban KPK. We were asking for more provinces anyway.

Sharia Law - Again, super conservative tribal area. These people are NOT driving around on weekends going to watch Spiderman and chill in cafes. They're mostly mountainous goat herders

Amnesty - Standard procedure

Autonomy - push back on this.

And the buck goes both ways. I only hear announcements of 'moo tor jawab' and 'befitting response' on this forum, but where is the depth and capability to carry out such a counter-insurgency? What exactly is the plan now that emergency lagaadi hay KPK may. Are we going to repeat the whole operation cycle now, internally displace thousands of people, put them in camps or what? When it ruins KPK then what? Army washes its hand of it and blames it on Shahbaz Sharif?

What exactly is the army's plan to eradicate terrorism? Beyond the cool edits and ISPR dramas, what is the actual plan. Are we going to flatten KPK and try to do a Tamil Tigers repeat? How is the Army going to man the border? How will it clamp down on the crossing of people and items across the borders?

Has the army been inspiring in its performance so far? Absolutely not. It's dismal. The kill ratio are embarassing, the tactics are unevolving, the equipment is lacking. These are all real issues that unfortunately even when highlighted on this forum certain crowd either swoops in to lock the thread or defend their heroes blindly.

What exactly is the plan and how will Pakistan succeed where USA + NATO combined failed in a whopping 18 years?

 

[Cipher212]

"About 40% to 44% of sitting Members of Parliament (MPs) in India have declared criminal cases against them, according to reports by the poll-rights body Association for Democratic Reforms (ADR)."

Why would I want this democracy?

Like I said, the worst functioning democracy absolutely mogs the best dictatorship. It is simply a superior system. It's like comparing a Merc that occasionally runs to a Mehran.

India is starting to blow us out of the water in terms of society and lifestyle, HDI, etc. and I fear if we stay on this path then in another 30 years no one will believe we started out from the same colony.

It is either Riyasat e Madina or democracy and politics. Both can not happen simultaneously.

Democracy any day. Pakistan should not be a military deep-state. This is no way to live and the state of the country in the past 4 years is definitely not making hybrid system look good.

 

[Bilal]

am talking about the political culture that was polluted by PTI goons. You are talking about individual incidents. Despite all those ugly incidents, the tolerance level among political workers and leaders was much higher than after PTI was imposed on Pakistan.

The political culture WAS bad. I can only give you recorded examples, there was no internet back then so I can’t show you tweets from the time.

And PPP was not imposed on Pakistan? And PMLN? 71 elections, IJI, 90s musical chair and now. Let’s not be naive.

 

[I*R*A]

Like I said, the worst functioning democracy absolutely mogs the best dictatorship. It is simply a superior system. It's like comparing a Merc that occasionally runs to a Mehran.

India is starting to blow us out of the water in terms of society and lifestyle, HDI, etc. and I fear if we stay on this path then in another 30 years no one will believe we started out from the same colony.


Democracy any day. Pakistan should not be a military deep-state. This is no way to live and the state of the country in the past 4 years is definitely not making hybrid system look good.

I am not supporting military rule of the country, for the time being, given the circumstances, there is no other option but to have this current regime bring peace and stability.

Way forward and long term, I want a system that educates, trains, grooms and selects people for governing the country. I do not want VVIP PMs, Presidents, CMs, MNAs, MPAs, Senators ... all these should be treated as jobs and people with relevant education and training should be hired.

Politics has no place in our country, people need peace, stability, equal rights, justice, opportunities and better life style. Our year starts with a political drama and ends with another circus, in between nobody is doing what they are supposed to do. Pakistan needs to act fast, Pakistani kids born after 2010 have entered their teen years already. They need opportunities, better peaceful life .. we cannot afford all this stupidity anymore. As I said, they all need to die for a better Pakistan.