PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[Signalian]

To me, it would make sense to pause the J-10CE, go real big on the J-35AE and more JF17CE and sell off the 20 units of the J10CE to another operator - in my view of course. The J10CE is an odd ball relative to where we want the PAF to go and the J-35AE can do everything the J10CE can do, and alot lot more on top ... The PAF had to do an emergency buy of the J10CE to offset the Rafale, and I suspect PAF would have preferred to have waited for the J-35AE instead if it could.

sell J-10 ? and get J-35 ?

Could you go in depth for this.

 

[Signalian]

Grounding the Mirages now would leave real gaps in strike and reconnaissance.

what if strike and reconnaissance role is given to drones and LMs?

 

[Signalian]

It took 2 Mirages with 2 pilots + 2 WSO's to deliver one precision missile during the 2019 conflict with India and that still required "Line of sight control" putting at risk a Mirage + 2 officers at risk that had to fly a high mission profile guiding the missile to its target.

Now, a JF17 alone can deliver 2 precision cruise missiles on its own with just 1 pilot in a standoff manner...

The Mirages cannot generate the mission rate that the JF17 can, at the lower cost that a JF17 can...

Mirages are old, and will tire easily given the maintenance issues relative to their age. They need to be replaced with JF17s asap.

Another view to look at it is how the strike sorties of future would look.

Decoy drones to saturate/overwhelm/or blind enemy AD, followed by LMs or UCAVs, followed by JFTs who either control the UCAVs/LMs or have strike profiles of their own depending on their loadouts.

 

[Cipher212]

It took 2 Mirages with 2 pilots + 2 WSO's to deliver one precision missile during the 2019 conflict with India and that still required "Line of sight control" putting at risk a Mirage + 2 officers at risk that had to fly a high mission profile guiding the missile to its target.

Now, a JF17 alone can deliver 2 precision cruise missiles on its own with just 1 pilot in a standoff manner...

The Mirages cannot generate the mission rate that the JF17 can, at the lower cost that a JF17 can...

Mirages are old, and will tire easily given the maintenance issues relative to their age. They need to be replaced with JF17s asap.

I think PAF understands this and they are already slated for replacement, just like anything else in PAF inventory. Some more urgent than others.

But if something were to happen right now and things were serious. Then you use everything you have. If you have even a single Mirage squadron sitting around with Mirage pilots, you send them in. Regardless of whether their chances of being successful is less than JF, J-10, J-35.

Plus I get the feeling that Sidhu being a Mirage driver has a soft spot for these aircraft and will try to hold onto them a bit longer.

 

[Blain2]

To me, it would make sense to pause the J-10CE, go real big on the J-35AE and more JF17CE and sell off the 20 units of the J10CE to another operator - in my view of course. The J10CE is an odd ball relative to where we want the PAF to go and the J-35AE can do everything the J10CE can do, and alot lot more on top ... The PAF had to do an emergency buy of the J10CE to offset the Rafale, and I suspect PAF would have preferred to have waited for the J-35AE instead if it could.

Keep in mind that J-10C is operationalized in the Air Force's employment strategy. This is not a minor thing. As we all know, it takes years to have that in place, tested, exercised etc. J-10C has gone through all these evolutions since their induction. From what I have heard, Pakistan has a need for upwards of 3 sqns (60 or so) to maintain an effective deterrence against the IAF's Rafale fleet.

J-35s will have to go through their own induction and the time it takes to get the employment right, and it will be very different than that of the J-10s. J-10s give us the long stick to stay at stand-off and deter the other side. J-35s may not even need the long-stick to carry out offensive air ops in the adversary's airspace.

If Pakistan is left with J-35s, J-10C, and JF-17s, that isn't all that bad with 3 types.

 

[NA71]

To me, it would make sense to pause the J-10CE, go real big on the J-35AE and more JF17CE and sell off the 20 units of the J10CE to another operator - in my view of course. The J10CE is an odd ball relative to where we want the PAF to go and the J-35AE can do everything the J10CE can do, and alot lot more on top ... The PAF had to do an emergency buy of the J10CE to offset the Rafale, and I suspect PAF would have preferred to have waited for the J-35AE instead if it could.

Keeping $12 billion assets (cost of 40 jets) safe would be another challenge under war scenario where missiles would be raining.

 

[Michael]

is PAF in for J20C/B single seat version with ws15 or J35A with ws19?

The items you mentioned are not for sale.

 

[SABRE]

Grounding the Mirages now would leave real gaps in strike and reconnaissance.

This is the Achilles' heel for PAF, and same for the IAF's Jaguars.

what if strike and reconnaissance role is given to drones and LMs?

Ideally, regular ISR role should now be allocated to drones.

 

[White Privilege]

For the time being, Mirages have good high-speed, low altitude, strike capability and can operate effectively under the cover of a good escort.

I think it is a matter of time for them to be replaced. I don't think anyone's doubting that our newer multirole aircraft can do more than the Mirages but for time they are around, they have to be put to use.

This aside, how is any of this tied to the J-35 induction?

Mirages can be put to good use, for their sheer speed and load carrying capability. Although it will be primitive and require support from other platforms as well. We can come up with high speed pods for payload carriage. Alot of these smaller LMs , that we launch from the ground, can be delivered from those pods. Mirages can come in low and fast , pull up fast through the AD, deliver these LMs and dive back. This way the munitions will initiate behind the AD coverage and will have greater survivability. Also we can put EW jammers in those pods,to escort strike packages.

 

[White Privilege]

Ideally, regular ISR role should now be allocated to drones.

The Reconnaissance Mirages have retired already, I believe, from that role atleast, no one is willing to wait a day for the photos....

 

[Yasser76]

The Reconnaissance Mirages have retired already, I believe, from that role atleast, no one is willing to wait a day for the photos....

Yeah, when we got F-16s with DB-110 pod it was a different world for PAF, and of course we have sats now too.

Issue is Mirages form 3-4 strike squadrons and are indeed outdate but with modern surface to air missiles they can still be useful for stand off strike. As @Ali_Baba mentioned 2019 Balakot was a waste of resources to put one H-4 missile on target we needed 2 Mirages and 3 pilots plus escort fighters. That is a lot of effort.

Issue I think is JF-17C and J-10Cs not inducted in the numbers we need so far. We lose the Mirage Sqds we are 3-4 Sqds short, and I realise it may not be a case of 1 v 1 direct replacement but even a smaller number of fighters can only be at one place at anyone time.

I fear PAF is feeling the pinch for JF-17 exports. The 40 JF-17Cs for Azeris could have let us basically retire the entire Mirage force by now

 

[NA71]

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The Mirages are not going nywhere soon.

Hi,

I told you guys over 2 decades ago---and it came from a very authentic usaf navigator---

"modern technology is so advanced that if you have a BRICK---and you have a powerful engine to fly it and load it up with Superior EW package and superior weapons---you can take out the most sophisticated designed fighter aircraft".

My predictions have not been wrong---why---because I have more years of reading and research on the subject matter than most of you members age. Fundemental of combat don't change---just the mannerism of the operation does---the mind behind it---the technology behind---the usage of that technology---the mindset behind that daptation and last but not the least---the application.

I told you guys 20 years ago on this forum

1. there will be no more dog fights---no merges---no one on one---it will be shoot and scoot---.

There are some super star admins on this forums who insulted me---but they have not come forward and apologised and said sorry that they were wrong

2. I projected about the Type 054 about 10 years before the deal was made

3. how about the submarines I projected about at the same time

4. Then for a heavy strike aircraft the JH7A for long range strike and a missile tyruck operation. How close was I on this prediction---a few will know

5. a missile truck---why waste your most modern fighter aircraft if you have a LR missile carrier that you can opetrate thru data link.

Could it be the mirages---or something else---.

6. How many were there that mentioned---" pakistan has no funds---from where they are going to pay---and I said---money was no issue---it never was.

7. I told you guys how many years ago that each and every chinese weappns system is available to pak militaryu if they want it.

There was no restriction on pakistan's military---.

One very esteemed german origin member insulted me many a times on the " all availability of chinese weapons to pak without money "---till after may 10th one of the most respected chinese spokesperson confirmed it over a 100 times---.

What srprised me the most about this german member of his incompetent mindset---.

China---a weapons producing nation is desperate to test its leading weapons & weapon systems against a leading enemy---without getting into a war---.

Here is their Iron Borther---and Iron Brother's enemy---. The enemy has sophisticated wester weapons---. Need I say more---.

8. Told you guy---the PL15 would be the longest range version---you kids badgered me---china will not give it---. The German also chimed in---.

You kids have shamelessly badgered me over the years---and I have lambasted you back with equal or more intensity---.

This is weapons world---listen and learn---.No one knows everything---only some know it more than the others---and you can too.

I have really enjoyed this battle---. Where I know that I can light a fire under someone's behind with just a simple sentence---.

Love pakistan---Love Pakistan military.

After 43 years I went to pakistan---stayed for 6 months---no issues at all---. Plan go go back and live there---.

At age 70 I drove thru inner city multan's narrow roads in my Toyota Surf SUV--Akbar rd---Bohar gate---Haram gate etc etc etc and then made U turns on those roads full of traffic---.

 

[Signalian]

Keeping $12 billion assets (cost of 40 jets) safe would be another challenge under war scenario where missiles would be raining.

The mountains or the ocean.

Mountains -PAF wont go for VTOL variant, but that would have been handy by keeping them safe within the peaks of Gilgit, without a runway of course. They could be scattered and could land/takeoff from anywhere. This saves the aircraft from missile strikes and also drone attacks (from insurgents within Pakistan too - the way ukrainian trucks carried drones near RuAF Airfield)

The ocean - somehow Pakistan is not into making artificial islands unlike China. An aircraft carrier is out of the question. This option only keeps the aircraft safe in peacetime from insurgent attacks like TTP attacks on PAF airbases.