PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[Signalian]

To me, it would make sense to pause the J-10CE, go real big on the J-35AE and more JF17CE and sell off the 20 units of the J10CE to another operator - in my view of course. The J10CE is an odd ball relative to where we want the PAF to go and the J-35AE can do everything the J10CE can do, and alot lot more on top ... The PAF had to do an emergency buy of the J10CE to offset the Rafale, and I suspect PAF would have preferred to have waited for the J-35AE instead if it could.

sell J-10 ? and get J-35 ?

Could you go in depth for this.

 

[Signalian]

Grounding the Mirages now would leave real gaps in strike and reconnaissance.

what if strike and reconnaissance role is given to drones and LMs?

 

[Signalian]

It took 2 Mirages with 2 pilots + 2 WSO's to deliver one precision missile during the 2019 conflict with India and that still required "Line of sight control" putting at risk a Mirage + 2 officers at risk that had to fly a high mission profile guiding the missile to its target.

Now, a JF17 alone can deliver 2 precision cruise missiles on its own with just 1 pilot in a standoff manner...

The Mirages cannot generate the mission rate that the JF17 can, at the lower cost that a JF17 can...

Mirages are old, and will tire easily given the maintenance issues relative to their age. They need to be replaced with JF17s asap.

Another view to look at it is how the strike sorties of future would look.

Decoy drones to saturate/overwhelm/or blind enemy AD, followed by LMs or UCAVs, followed by JFTs who either control the UCAVs/LMs or have strike profiles of their own depending on their loadouts.

 

[Cipher212]

It took 2 Mirages with 2 pilots + 2 WSO's to deliver one precision missile during the 2019 conflict with India and that still required "Line of sight control" putting at risk a Mirage + 2 officers at risk that had to fly a high mission profile guiding the missile to its target.

Now, a JF17 alone can deliver 2 precision cruise missiles on its own with just 1 pilot in a standoff manner...

The Mirages cannot generate the mission rate that the JF17 can, at the lower cost that a JF17 can...

Mirages are old, and will tire easily given the maintenance issues relative to their age. They need to be replaced with JF17s asap.

I think PAF understands this and they are already slated for replacement, just like anything else in PAF inventory. Some more urgent than others.

But if something were to happen right now and things were serious. Then you use everything you have. If you have even a single Mirage squadron sitting around with Mirage pilots, you send them in. Regardless of whether their chances of being successful is less than JF, J-10, J-35.

Plus I get the feeling that Sidhu being a Mirage driver has a soft spot for these aircraft and will try to hold onto them a bit longer.

 

[Blain2]

To me, it would make sense to pause the J-10CE, go real big on the J-35AE and more JF17CE and sell off the 20 units of the J10CE to another operator - in my view of course. The J10CE is an odd ball relative to where we want the PAF to go and the J-35AE can do everything the J10CE can do, and alot lot more on top ... The PAF had to do an emergency buy of the J10CE to offset the Rafale, and I suspect PAF would have preferred to have waited for the J-35AE instead if it could.

Keep in mind that J-10C is operationalized in the Air Force's employment strategy. This is not a minor thing. As we all know, it takes years to have that in place, tested, exercised etc. J-10C has gone through all these evolutions since their induction. From what I have heard, Pakistan has a need for upwards of 3 sqns (60 or so) to maintain an effective deterrence against the IAF's Rafale fleet.

J-35s will have to go through their own induction and the time it takes to get the employment right, and it will be very different than that of the J-10s. J-10s give us the long stick to stay at stand-off and deter the other side. J-35s may not even need the long-stick to carry out offensive air ops in the adversary's airspace.

If Pakistan is left with J-35s, J-10C, and JF-17s, that isn't all that bad with 3 types.

 

[NA71]

To me, it would make sense to pause the J-10CE, go real big on the J-35AE and more JF17CE and sell off the 20 units of the J10CE to another operator - in my view of course. The J10CE is an odd ball relative to where we want the PAF to go and the J-35AE can do everything the J10CE can do, and alot lot more on top ... The PAF had to do an emergency buy of the J10CE to offset the Rafale, and I suspect PAF would have preferred to have waited for the J-35AE instead if it could.

Keeping $12 billion assets (cost of 40 jets) safe would be another challenge under war scenario where missiles would be raining.

 

[Michael]

is PAF in for J20C/B single seat version with ws15 or J35A with ws19?

The items you mentioned are not for sale.

 

[SABRE]

Grounding the Mirages now would leave real gaps in strike and reconnaissance.

This is the Achilles' heel for PAF, and same for the IAF's Jaguars.

what if strike and reconnaissance role is given to drones and LMs?

Ideally, regular ISR role should now be allocated to drones.

 

[White Privilege]

For the time being, Mirages have good high-speed, low altitude, strike capability and can operate effectively under the cover of a good escort.

I think it is a matter of time for them to be replaced. I don't think anyone's doubting that our newer multirole aircraft can do more than the Mirages but for time they are around, they have to be put to use.

This aside, how is any of this tied to the J-35 induction?

Mirages can be put to good use, for their sheer speed and load carrying capability. Although it will be primitive and require support from other platforms as well. We can come up with high speed pods for payload carriage. Alot of these smaller LMs , that we launch from the ground, can be delivered from those pods. Mirages can come in low and fast , pull up fast through the AD, deliver these LMs and dive back. This way the munitions will initiate behind the AD coverage and will have greater survivability. Also we can put EW jammers in those pods,to escort strike packages.

 

[White Privilege]

Ideally, regular ISR role should now be allocated to drones.

The Reconnaissance Mirages have retired already, I believe, from that role atleast, no one is willing to wait a day for the photos....

 

[Yasser76]

The Reconnaissance Mirages have retired already, I believe, from that role atleast, no one is willing to wait a day for the photos....

Yeah, when we got F-16s with DB-110 pod it was a different world for PAF, and of course we have sats now too.

Issue is Mirages form 3-4 strike squadrons and are indeed outdate but with modern surface to air missiles they can still be useful for stand off strike. As @Ali_Baba mentioned 2019 Balakot was a waste of resources to put one H-4 missile on target we needed 2 Mirages and 3 pilots plus escort fighters. That is a lot of effort.

Issue I think is JF-17C and J-10Cs not inducted in the numbers we need so far. We lose the Mirage Sqds we are 3-4 Sqds short, and I realise it may not be a case of 1 v 1 direct replacement but even a smaller number of fighters can only be at one place at anyone time.

I fear PAF is feeling the pinch for JF-17 exports. The 40 JF-17Cs for Azeris could have let us basically retire the entire Mirage force by now