PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[air marshal]

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[ghazi52]

 

[ghazi52]

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[prothought]

Pakistan would have to sweeten the deal by buying enough American Ammo and services (Specifically Lockheed products primarily but all the major 5-6 defense contractors) across the three services to make it worth it, and get the defense contractors to lobby for the upgrade.

Buying 18 used F-16C/D plus the following upgrades for 90 planes (5 Squadrons)

1. Auto GCAS upgrade for F-16s
2. A Lockheed supplied and supported overhaul facility in Pakistan for the F-16s
3. F-16 Drogue refueling system
4. Triple Missile launcher
5. Towed decoy
6. A new engine for each plane plus a few extras
7. IRST21 pod and/or Sniper targeting pod
8. 500 AMRAAMs and 500 Aim-9Xs

The key components from turkey from the Ozgur upgrade would be the AESA Radar, jamming pods, mission computer, avionics, cockpit, smart helmet (which could be carried over into the KAAN program when the F-16s retire)

Beyond the F-16:
More Bombardier Global 6000 for the Havasoj program and Saab Globaleye program and Embarer 1000 for the MPA, all non-American products but all have American components.

Avionics modernization for the C-130s

Seahawk (MH-60R) helicopters with lightweight torpedos, ESSM, Rolling airframe missile for the Jinnah Class frigates

Upgrade to the P-3 Orions to extend their lives (upgrades that could be transferred over to the Sea Sultans when the lives of the P-3s run out)

It's just wishful thinking. Pakistan is not a strategic ally of the Us (but India is). Given the current geostrategic alignments and expected future trends, Uncle Sam would never agree to all this. More than that, I don't think the US will agree to even Ozgur upgrade for the PAF F-16s. In addition, Pakistan is not in a position to financially afford all that US equipment that you have listed.

In fact, the way we are getting Chinese/Turkish military systems (and developing our own), American systems will turn out to be aliens in Pakistani military in future.

 

[FuturePAF]

It's just wishful thinking. Pakistan is not a strategic ally of the Us (but India is). Given the current geostrategic alignments and expected future trends, Uncle Sam would never agree to all this. More than that, I don't think the US will agree to even Ozgur upgrade for the PAF F-16s. In addition, Pakistan is not in a position to financially afford all that US equipment that you have listed.

In fact, the way we are getting Chinese/Turkish military systems (and developing our own), American systems will turn out to be aliens in Pakistani military in future.

What Pakistan has is its location. It’s seems this is what Pakistan keeps harping on, but it’s true. Pakistan is bordered to its west by Iran, a country the west will try to encircle/ostracize. Iran is also about to modernize its military and the Russians look set to help them do it, because both nations don’t care about the sanctions against them, and see each others as “fellow travelers”.

Pakistan and the US are already focus on CT vis a vi Afghanistan, but for the US now, containing Iranian influence has moved up the priority list.

Building up Pakistan in such a way to throw weight behind her on Afghanistan and Central Asia can create an “alliance” to challenge Iranian influence in the heart of Asia, where no other independent pathway allows. Even the Azerbaijani route has Russian influence upon it.

So Pakistan could insist on the means to defend itself against an Iranian Air Force that will soon operate many Su-35s and S400s. Heck the Uzbeks are looking to get Rafales and they have an Iranian ally in the form of Tajikistan on their border.

Pakistan wouldn’t be carrying out military operations against Iran, on behalf of any power, but maintaining a capability to protect a new arrangement in Central Asia. Furthermore, Pakistan seeks to have some influence in the west to maintain/grow its economic export prospects with the west, so it’s not unlikely this may be an arrangement Pakistan is seeking, especially as a way to bury the reframe the history of Pak-US relations vis a vi Afghanistan, and find a productive new relationship.

A Pak-US relationship focused around this new priority, would allow Pakistan to not face as much pressure from the US about its relationship with China going forward as Pakistan seeks more advanced military capabilities.

 

[Deino]

View attachment 34599

Oh come on! This is neither a PAF J-10CE nor any real one. It is clearly a model kit of a "what-if" PLAAF J-10CS.

 

[prothought]

What Pakistan has is its location. It’s seems this is what Pakistan keeps harping on, but it’s true. Pakistan is bordered to its west by Iran, a country the west will try to encircle/ostracize. Iran is also about to modernize its military and the Russians look set to help them do it, because both nations don’t care about the sanctions against them, and see each others as “fellow travelers”.

Pakistan and the US are already focus on CT vis a vi Afghanistan, but for the US now, containing Iranian influence has moved up the priority list.

Building up Pakistan in such a way to throw weight behind her on Afghanistan and Central Asia can create an “alliance” to challenge Iranian influence in the heart of Asia, where no other independent pathway allows. Even the Azerbaijani route has Russian influence upon it.

So Pakistan could insist on the means to defend itself against an Iranian Air Force that will soon operate many Su-35s and S400s. Heck the Uzbeks are looking to get Rafales and they have an Iranian ally in the form of Tajikistan on their border.

Pakistan wouldn’t be carrying out military operations against Iran, on behalf of any power, but maintaining a capability to protect a new arrangement in Central Asia. Furthermore, Pakistan seeks to have some influence in the west to maintain/grow its economic export prospects with the west, so it’s not unlikely this may be an arrangement Pakistan is seeking, especially as a way to bury the reframe the history of Pak-US relations vis a vi Afghanistan, and find a productive new relationship.

A Pak-US relationship focused around this new priority, would allow Pakistan to not face as much pressure from the US about its relationship with China going forward as Pakistan seeks more advanced military capabilities.

You're mistaken my friend. Pakistan has never acted as rival to Iran in the past despite extreme pressure at times from the US and the fact that Iranians have been acting recklessly in the region. We have maintained a balanced relationship with the US, Arab friends, and Iran. Even if Iran has been used as conduit of Indian backed terrorism (a deadly and extremely serious issue for us) in recent decades, we have shown a remarkable restraint against Iran. We don't see Iranian Su-35s and S400s as a threat to us.

Now that Pakistan is almost out of US basket and much closer to China, how can Pakistan prop-up animosity towards its western neighbor? It makes no sense to me. Americans are in no position to offer us anything of strategic worth. Pakistan needs Iranian cooperation to eliminate terrorism and bring peace, development, and prosperity in the region.

I would also beg to differ on another aspect. Forget about US trying to seriously hit (directly or indirectly) Iran in foreseeable future. Uncle Sam desperately needs a monster in here to keep Arab states on their toes. I wouldn't say that Irani revolution in 1979 was orchestrated by the CIA but the post 1979 scenario has only benefitted Zionists and Uncle Sam. Arabs forgot about liberating Palestine (much less than their original goal of 'destroying' Israel) for fear of Irani monster and were forced to sign peace treaties with their enemy, i.e. Zionist terrorists. And, of course, there is no question of Arabs using oil as a weapon against the West anymore.

Anyhow, the recent rapprochement between Arabs and Iran is a good omen for this region.

 

[lightning f57]

Pakistan needs keep an arms length with american warplanes. They always come with a stick and are used as leverage or sanctioned. Buying any more even if they had money would be a major mistake as history has proven. All hail the chinese options which dont come with nowhere near the same restrictions.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Sir us out of the basket! No, nada, nien!! In fact the powers be, are hard at it, trying to get US engaged back in the region and open its coffers once again for our elite to plunder in the shape of aid etc.

 

[prothought]

Sir us out of the basket! No, nada, nien!! In fact the powers be, are hard at it, trying to get US engaged back in the region and open its coffers once again for our elite to plunder in the shape of aid etc.

Not really. It's just politically motivated propaganda based on falsehood. People don't see how much Pakistan has strategically aligned itself with China in all spheres of strategic life, military, economic, diplomatic, science & technology, etc. I would say Pakistan never had such a deep-rooted alliance and overwhelming relationship with any other country in the past (including with the US).

Having said that, however, it doesn't require Pakistan to start animosity towards the US or West. We need to shrug off that old mentality of having only friends or foes without a third choice. Being a strategic ally of China does not really mean that USA is our enemy. We need to have a healthy friendship with all nations based on our shared national interests. I think we still have a lot (and I really mean a lot) of shared national interests that require a friendly relationship with the US.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

What Pakistan has is its location. It’s seems this is what Pakistan keeps harping on, but it’s true. Pakistan is bordered to its west by Iran, a country the west will try to encircle/ostracize. Iran is also about to modernize its military and the Russians look set to help them do it, because both nations don’t care about the sanctions against them, and see each others as “fellow travelers”.

Pakistan and the US are already focus on CT vis a vi Afghanistan, but for the US now, containing Iranian influence has moved up the priority list.

Building up Pakistan in such a way to throw weight behind her on Afghanistan and Central Asia can create an “alliance” to challenge Iranian influence in the heart of Asia, where no other independent pathway allows. Even the Azerbaijani route has Russian influence upon it.

So Pakistan could insist on the means to defend itself against an Iranian Air Force that will soon operate many Su-35s and S400s. Heck the Uzbeks are looking to get Rafales and they have an Iranian ally in the form of Tajikistan on their border.

Pakistan wouldn’t be carrying out military operations against Iran, on behalf of any power, but maintaining a capability to protect a new arrangement in Central Asia. Furthermore, Pakistan seeks to have some influence in the west to maintain/grow its economic export prospects with the west, so it’s not unlikely this may be an arrangement Pakistan is seeking, especially as a way to bury the reframe the history of Pak-US relations vis a vi Afghanistan, and find a productive new relationship.

A Pak-US relationship focused around this new priority, would allow Pakistan to not face as much pressure from the US about its relationship with China going forward as Pakistan seeks more advanced military capabilities.

I have to admit the Pak Deep State is playing quite smartly this time given the developing geo-strategic catastropic "perfect storm" for the folks are now playing in "winners take it all" mode! Countries like Turkey and Pak need to opt out as much as possible to avoid the proportional disasters. They need to, however, protect their core interests via honest give-and-take arrangements....

The real developments are in the Ukraine and Pacific fronts, which would directly affect Turkey and Pakistan, respectively. They need to be damn careful.....

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Pakistan needs keep an arms length with american warplanes. They always come with a stick and are used as leverage or sanctioned. Buying any more even if they had money would be a major mistake as history has proven. All hail the chinese options which dont come with nowhere near the same restrictions.

But, requesting for upgrading the existing F-16s via the Turkish Ozgur program may be like the "last wish" from a "dying patient" without breaking the "camel's back".....