HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions

[Chandragupt Maurya]

No, it is not, F-16 airframe was designed for 8000 hours of service life.
And the upgrade they showed for F-21, was almost similar than what we going to see in LCA Mk2.

I was not referring to the service life, the design of the F-16 is 50 years old, and there is a limit to how much you can upgrade and modify such an old design. Tejas, Eurofighter, Rafale, and Gripen are modern designs.

 

[kaku]

I was not referring to the service life, the design of the F-16 is 50 years old, and there is a limit to how much you can upgrade and modify such an old design. Tejas, Eurofighter, Rafale, and Gripen are modern designs.

What is the mordern design? And how F-16 doesnt qualify for it, whats so special in Eurofighter, Rafale and Gripen that make it mordern? And why that is not possible to convert 3rd gen jets to 4.5 gen?

Are you suggesting the 12 new SU-30 MKI we are purchasing, arent going to be 4.5 gen, and be inferior than the jets you have mentioned above?

Please give a detailed reply, and clarify things once and for all.

 

[Yasser76]

What is the mordern design? And how F-16 doesnt qualify for it, whats so special in Eurofighter, Rafale and Gripen that make it mordern? And why that is not possible to convert 3rd gen jets to 4.5 gen?

Are you suggesting the 12 new SU-30 MKI we are purchasing, arent going to be 4.5 gen, and be inferior than the jets you have mentioned above?

Please give a detailed reply, and clarify things once and for all.

fighter jets are complex things, you cannot simply bolt on something new and make a 3rd gen jet into a 4.5th gen jet.

1) integration issues. Mating brand new systems from a different country onto an old jet from a different country is very difficult, not impossible, but very hard.
2) Power issues. Modern systems like IRST, targeting pods, AESA need a lot of power, 3rd gen jets like Mirage III/5, Jaguar etc have limited power already
3) SU-30MKI, unless upgraded, is now technology that is over 30 years old, can no way be considered 4.5th gen

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

What is the mordern design? And how F-16 doesnt qualify for it, whats so special in Eurofighter, Rafale and Gripen that make it mordern? And why that is not possible to convert 3rd gen jets to 4.5 gen?

Are you suggesting the 12 new SU-30 MKI we are purchasing, arent going to be 4.5 gen, and be inferior than the jets you have mentioned above?

Please give a detailed reply, and clarify things once and for all.

A modern aircraft design is engineered to accommodate modern avionics. These designs incorporate a higher percentage of carbon composite materials, are optimized for stealth, and include several other advanced features. And, it is not feasible to upgrade a third-generation jet to a 4.5 generation, upgrading a MiG-21 to a 4.5 generation is simply not possible.

 

[Joe Shearer]

This is not about dick measuring contest. But by default, accepting F-16 as battlestar galactica, and Tejas Mk1A/Mk2 are like ants. But if someone try to say otherwise with evidence, then it’s a ridicule. While other party, unable to produce anything.

One should do psychological analysis of this inferiority complex.

Firstly Tejas Mk1A was so inferior that it soundnt be compared, but when someone showed otherwise, then it’s not even about one vs one, and if someone do comparison of other force multiplier, then it’s out of context. Switching arguments greater than speed of causality.

That's a fair response, but if the entire thread bears signs of extravagance in claims, it triggers responses from those already predisposed to resist any Indian claims, or claims on behalf of Indian technology, merely because it is Indian.
It needs a more systematic and clinical approach.

 

[Yasser76]

That's a fair response, but if the entire thread bears signs of extravagance in claims, it triggers responses from those already predisposed to resist any Indian claims, or claims on behalf of Indian technology, merely because it is Indian.
It needs a more systematic and clinical approach.

Sorry, this shows an innate bias, you can agree with some claims but dispute those that are factually wrong, or you think are wrong, both sides do that, it is not just Indian claims being "resisted".....

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

fighter jets are complex things, you cannot simply bolt on something new and make a 3rd gen jet into a 4.5th gen jet.

1) integration issues. Mating brand new systems from a different country onto an old jet from a different country is very difficult, not impossible, but very hard.
2) Power issues. Modern systems like IRST, targeting pods, AESA need a lot of power, 3rd gen jets like Mirage III/5, Jaguar etc have limited power already
3) SU-30MKI, unless upgraded, is now technology that is over 30 years old, can no way be considered 4.5th gen

The Su-30MKI would likely need a new engine or enhanced thrust from its existing engine to power the UTTAM MK3 AESA radar. However, this radar is a Gallium Nitride AESA type, which requires less power compared to a Gallium Arsenide one. Nonetheless, Su-30MKI is no longer the frontline fighter jet of the Indian Air Force, that role has now been assumed by the Rafales and Tejas.

 

[kaku]

fighter jets are complex things, you cannot simply bolt on something new and make a 3rd gen jet into a 4.5th gen jet.

1) integration issues. Mating brand new systems from a different country onto an old jet from a different country is very difficult, not impossible, but very hard.

All the platforms of western design use 1553 databus for intefacing between avionics, and 1760 for carriage store. F-16 use the same, but F-16 Block 70 gone above in choosing ethernet databus between radar,MC and display units., So I dont know what the integration issue which you are talking about.

2) Power issues. Modern systems like IRST, targeting pods, AESA need a lot of power, 3rd gen jets like Mirage III/5, Jaguar etc have limited power already

F110/F100 both are 3rd gen engines, furthur AESA have nothing to do with power, even the scalability issue/power management issue is much better AESA radars. Heck, even Darin III is equipped with AESA radar.

3) SU-30MKI, unless upgraded, is now technology that is over 30 years old, can no way be considered 4.5th gen

12 new airframes are upgraded one.

 

[Yasser76]

The Su-30MKI would likely need a new engine or enhanced thrust from its existing engine to power the UTTAM MK3 AESA radar. However, this radar is a Gallium Nitride AESA type, which requires less power compared to a Gallium Arsenide one. Nonetheless, Su-30MKI is no longer the frontline fighter jet of the Indian Air Force, that role has now been assumed by the Rafales and Tejas.

Tejas front line and replaced SU-30 already? I am not sure about that....

Also total Tejas frontline strength is 1 sqd (That is fully FOC) and Rafales only 2sqd, how does that replace 14 odd SU-3O sqds!?

 

[kaku]

A modern aircraft design is engineered to accommodate modern avionics. These designs incorporate a higher percentage of carbon composite materials, are optimized for stealth, and include several other advanced features. And, it is not feasible to upgrade a third-generation jet to a 4.5 generation, upgrading a MiG-21 to a 4.5 generation is simply not possible.

Firstly how carbon composte airframe make you fighter to accomodate mordern avionics? And what are those mordern avionics, please mention it.

 

[Yasser76]

All the platforms of western design use 1553 databus for intefacing between avionics, and 1760 for carriage store. F-16 use the same, but F-16 Block 70 gone above in choosing ethernet databus between radar,MC and display units.,

F110/F100 both are 4th gen engines, furthur AESA have nothing to do with power, even the scalability issue/power management issue is much better AESA radars. Heck, even Darin III is equipped with AESA radar.


12 new airframes are upgraded one.

No, you are now selectively picking and choosing specific planes. MIG-21, Mirages and Jagaurs do not have 1553 databus nor F110 egines.

Do you have a source that all 12 are of the new variant, every single Indian reports stats they are MKIs

 

[kaku]

No, you are now selectively picking and choosing specific planes. MIG-21, Mirages and Jagaurs do not have 1553 databus nor F110 egines.

Do you have a source that all 12 are of the new variant, every single Indian reports stats they are MKIs

The post you quoted me, I asked specifically about how F-16 is inferior than mordern jets like of Rafale, Eurofighter etc?

And yes, Jaguar Darin III and Mirage both have 1553 databus,

 

[DDG-80]

3) SU-30MKI, unless upgraded, is now technology that is over 30 years old, can no way be considered 4.5th gen

Digital RWR DR118 Dhruti will allow SU30 MKI to intercept LPI AESA signals and take proper action

 

[DDG-80]

SU-30MKI, unless upgraded, is now technology that is over 30 years old, can no way be considered 4.5th gen

In terms of ECM capabilities of SU-30 MKI, the SU-30s can carry Elta EL/M-8222 SPJ. This is a standard EW pod for all SU-30 MKIs in service with Indian Airforce.

Jamming Modes I have read ELTA EL/M-8222 SPJ supports

1. Deceptive jamming
2. DRFM jamming
3. Barrage jamming
4. Pulse jamming

The first two are very important against A-A Missiles like AIM-120 C5 as when the missile is jammed the missile will encounter extreme difficulty to home on jam. Though Russian jammers have higher transmit power they use Blanket Jamming hence home on jam is effective against them. Blanket Jamming also fails against AESA seeker or radar.

During 27th Feb 2019, when PAF fired couple of AIM-120s on MKI; ELTA El/M-8222 SPJ were able to autonomously steer off the missiles away from its host aircraft thus saving the host aircraft.

 

[kaku]

Do you have a source that all 12 are of the new variant, every single Indian reports stats they are MKIs

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