PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

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Paf modernization plan bigger fish to fry

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razgriz19 said:
They can. You just need to refuel them again when they're up in the air. There are countless photos of EF Typhoons with max payload
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Still not much range they can achieve T/W ratio is too low for stay in air for long period of time and also lift/drag ratio is higher than mission specific payloads
 
Taimoor said:
ADA during hostilities.
5 mins? Where did you get that info? This ain't f7.
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Even the F-7/ Mig-21s had more, they famously had 45 mins of endurance without external tanks. With a fuel fraction of 27.5, significantly higher than that of the F-7 (0.24 from memory), The J-10 should be able to give north of 1 hour patrol time at or near base without external tanks.

Some back ground: We know there are three variables that affect range and endurance:
1. Aero foil configuration or Lift-to-Drag ratio: The F-7 and J-10 are both deltas but the J-10 has canards which improves flow characteristics. Also, the J-10 was conceived in different light vs the Mig-21s interceptor design parameters, hence other characteristics like aspect ration, wing thickness etc would favour a multi-role cruiser over an interceptor dasher design.
2. Propulsion efficiency: Swap a turbo-fan for a tubo-jet and you get more range and endurance. The J-10 does that.
3. Fuel fraction: see breguet's range equation. Not as good as other modern deltas (Typhoon 0.31, Rafale 0.32 - again from memory), but better than F-7 and Jf-17.

The Jf-17 improves on 1 and 2 vs the F-7 but not really on 3, hence its short legs compared to J-10 and one of the reasons for the J-10 making its way into PAF.

A good summary: https://people.clarkson.edu/~pmarzocc/AE429/AE-429-11.pdf
 
J-10 has a refuelling probe so assuming for long haul CAPs during periods of tension we can get at least one reufueller in the air for Northern Pakistan at least, obviously if we induct more refuellers the situation eases even more.
 
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Yasser76 said:
J-10 has a refuelling probe so assuming for long haul CAPs during periods of tension we can get at least one reufueller in the air for Northern Pakistan at least, obviously if we induct more refuellers the situation eases even more.
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What we need is buddy to buddy refueling, those are most effective for CAP's.
 
razgriz19 said:
They can. You just need to refuel them again when they're up in the air. There are countless photos of EF Typhoons with max payload
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Hi,

Typhoon is carrying a lot more fuel in its wings than the J10---but still, refuelling will help a lot.
 
White and Green with M/S said:
Wether it's ADA or CAP endurance is very limited
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ADA is quick reaction for dealing with incoming known threats or when airspace is already violated, you need maximum firepower and less endurance. The size of threats we are now dealing where they will come in pack of 10s, you need this level of firepower.

CAP is for sustained guard duty where threat is perceived but not materialised yet.

Completely different roles.
 
Reichmarshal said:
Most fuel the ac consumes in the take off stage, so u can have ur ac refulled after take off once they have reached altitude.
JF 17 is not short legged by any means.....has sufficient legs for time on starion.
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Yes, 100% this. Once in there air, with three fuel tanks and refulled air to air this bird will have plenty of CAP time. Also need to add most of our air bases are very close to the border so very little (or none) time to station.
 
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