I'm all for free speech - but why does our state allow explicit pro-terrorist propaganda via universities/journalists/activists??

[Awwad]

When terrorism started in Pakistan, we all called for anti terrorism laws for a decade, to destroy terrorist funding, literature, sponsors, symphathisers, the people who gave fatwas but nothing was done, what could be the reason? No PDF analyst can answer this question.

When finally anti terrorism courts were established, they were used to prosecute political opponents and the innocent, the terrorist and their symphathisers are still out there, receiving chanda, building maddrassas, they may have become alot more moderate because they couldn't defeat Pakistan so changed their tactics, their symphathisers are in powerful positions in our state so they always protect their own.

Existing military establishment has one amazing feat. They have successfully turned many millions against them. Its like military ruined its own support. Murdering Arshad shareef gave a huge blow to the reputation of military and many other actions.
If you do regime change, you steal mandate of the nation, you do abductions and tortures and if you expect the support too then one can only salute to such expectations.

Today nation is more aware. They know their loyality, their support, their efforts have to be aligned with nation's interests like rule of law, constitution, welfare of the people. People can't be fooled always by psychocases every once in a while likes of Gen Yahya and current establishment.

 

[ziaulislam]

These generals need to grow a goddamn spine and be independent for once, by standing for their own country's interests. No one else is going to do that for you.

This slave mentality must end. Look at Turkey, China, even India. You have to stand for yourself, no one elsbut they do stand for their interests....

Awaam is 100% jahil, illiterate, pendu. And so is leadership.

I have come to terms that most Pakistanis are straight idiots and they are also in the position they are in because they don't care. Little food on table they will tolerate being backwards nation and humilated.

So you are saying the jahil awaam elected Muhammad Ali Jinnah, Fatima jinnah, and resisted against ayub and gandhi/nehru

So it means the decision of forming Pakistan was wrong as awaam is jahil

Please let me know how did the jahil awaam made the decision to form pakistan as clearly pakistan wasn't formed by some military general, the military generals refused to obey Jinnah and the jahil awaam had to pick up the arms themselves to free part of Kashmir..

The protego of that journal was ayub Khan he sold three rivers to India, imprisoned Fatima jinnah and bacha khan, then the next protego of that protego was the one who imprisoned mujeeb
Turning him into a traitor..

2+2 =4

You can't say 2+2 =5


Either say Fatima jinnah, mujeeb ur rehman and bacha Khan were traitors or not because all of them supported Fatima jinnah against ayub and gave wast Pakistan votes to ger

 

[ziaulislam]

This jahil awaam mantra worked in turkey and several other Muslim/arab countries as it was the generals their who saved turkey, not the jahil awaam but how will you use this mantra in Pakistan where generals have always run away ..be it sepoy rebellion to forming of Pakistan to first kashmir war..where ordinary people had to pick up arms as general said I ain't fighting on your orders .be it 1962 when Chinese ambassador told ayub to mobilize troops into kashmir (per personal secretary of ayub Khan shahab famously documented into his shahab nama)

 

[ziaulislam]

55% literacy rate is abysmal. And of those who are literate, the standard of literacy is merely writing your name on a chalkboard.

So the real proportion of Pakistanis with a half decent quality education is probably close to 40%, surely much lower in interior Sindh.

The bastards in power are still not happy, though, and are busy hunting down the handful of schools who can produce statesmen capable of running a massive country like Pakistan. Just look at the Aitchison fiasco.

They just want us to be brainwashed drones chanting to the tunes of PTI, PMLN, PPP, Sunni, Shia, Kafir, Muhajir, Sindhi, Punjabi, Pashtun, Baloch...

54% can write and read sure, but that doesn't mean they don't understand right and wrong

Reading it self doesn't qualify you to be ba shahoore

Infact the most literate people are the biggest jahils in Pakistan

The most corrupt people are educated people in Pakistan
We have the highest population of paray lekhay jahil

The more illiterate the person is in Pakistan the more he makes sense when I talk to them

 

[krash]

When terrorism started in Pakistan, we all called for anti terrorism laws for a decade, to destroy terrorist funding, literature, sponsors, symphathisers, the people who gave fatwas but nothing was done, what could be the reason? No PDF analyst can answer this question.

Not exactly. For the first decade, give or take, the majority of the country was against any meaningful measures against the terrorists. Not out of any nefarious political sympathies but due to an ill-founded feeling of Muslim brotherhood. Most thought of them as their misunderstood Muslim brethren. Politicians such as Imran Khan were giving statements against any operation, even when Zarb-e-azb had begun. PMLN was pretending that there were no terrorists in Punjab. Our Jawans who did fight came home to the ostracization of their entire families. TTP had sympathizers in the government, the military, religious institutions, and the general public. It took a fair bit of public debate for the country to change its mind.

 

[CynicalPakistaniCritic]

So you are saying the jahil awaam elected Muhammad Ali Jinnah, Fatima jinnah, and resisted against ayub and gandhi/nehru

So it means the decision of forming Pakistan was wrong as awaam is jahil

Please let me know how did the jahil awaam made the decision to form pakistan as clearly pakistan wasn't formed by some military general, the military generals refused to obey Jinnah and the jahil awaam had to pick up the arms themselves to free part of Kashmir..

The protego of that journal was ayub Khan he sold three rivers to India, imprisoned Fatima jinnah and bacha khan, then the next protego of that protego was the one who imprisoned mujeeb
Turning him into a traitor..

2+2 =4

You can't say 2+2 =5


Either say Fatima jinnah, mujeeb ur rehman and bacha Khan were traitors or not because all of them supported Fatima jinnah against ayub and gave wast Pakistan votes to ger

Most people were literally even more illiterate then, than they are today

It's easy to build a narrative around certain individuals as messiahs using religion and get their support.

It doesn't speak anything about an individuals critical thinking capacity or reasoning behind it

 

[CynicalPakistaniCritic]

When terrorism started in Pakistan, we all called for anti terrorism laws for a decade, to destroy terrorist funding, literature, sponsors, symphathisers, the people who gave fatwas but nothing was done, what could be the reason? No PDF analyst can answer this question.

When finally anti terrorism courts were established, they were used to prosecute political opponents and the innocent, the terrorist and their symphathisers are still out there, receiving chanda, building maddrassas, they may have become alot more moderate because they couldn't defeat Pakistan so changed their tactics, their symphathisers are in powerful positions in our state so they always protect their own.

The bans and laws you are calling for will be used against the normal people. Its unfortunate how this is all happening, either we have corrupt and useless as leadership or traitors.

Lol, this is the fake public narrative that is sold from populists.

Should I tell you the reality? People across the country at one point had huge sympathies for terrorist organisations and across institutions. Many cases of army men betraying the army to work for TTP. News anchors openly called terrorists as mujahideen and said soldiers killed were not shaheed. It was around APS this changed.

There was a roadmap made after but it wasn't implemented it because of usual lazy political games starting again

 

[CynicalPakistaniCritic]

Existing military establishment has one amazing feat. They have successfully turned many millions against them. Its like military ruined its own support. Murdering Arshad shareef gave a huge blow to the reputation of military and many other actions.
If you do regime change, you steal mandate of the nation, you do abductions and tortures and if you expect the support too then one can only salute to such expectations.

Today nation is more aware. They know their loyality, their support, their efforts have to be aligned with nation's interests like rule of law, constitution, welfare of the people. People can't be fooled always by psychocases every once in a while likes of Gen Yahya and current establishment.

Arshad Sharif is on record praising Asim Munir by the way lmao... there are videos of it.

 

[krash]

54% can write and read sure, but that doesn't mean they don't understand right and wrong

Reading it self doesn't qualify you to be ba shahoore

Infact the most literate people are the biggest jahils in Pakistan

The most corrupt people are educated people in Pakistan
We have the highest population of paray lekhay jahil

The more illiterate the person is in Pakistan the more he makes sense when I talk to them

It's the same principle of the pursuit of personal interest at play in both scenarios. The personal interests of the general public are naturally always intertwined with the collective interests of the society. The personal interests of the powerful, though, are mostly in opposition of the collective interests since their power is built upon and sustained by the subjugation and/or exploitation of the general public. The identification of personal interest for every individual is intrinsic and natural, does not require any formal education at all. In the sane world the collective power of the general public demands and wins protection against the powerful, to then in turn create mechanisms to keep the powerful in check.

In our land the situation is turned on its head and spinning. The powerful pursue their personal interests at the detriment of the collective interests while the general public supports and enables them to do so with undying enthusiasm. The doings of the Pakistani powerful are the fault of its general public. You can't fault the wolf for being a wolf, IMO.

 

[ziaulislam]

Arshad Sharif is on record praising Asim Munir by the way lmao... there are videos of it.

Jinnah was also praising Gandhi and Congress before he saw their true colors...what's your point dude..you make no sense ..

 

[ziaulislam]

Most people were literally even more illiterate then, than they are today

It's easy to build a narrative around certain individuals as messiahs using religion and get their support.

It doesn't speak anything about an individuals critical thinking capacity or reasoning behind it

You didn't answer my question
If Pakistan people are jahil then obviously formation of Pakistan was wrong

 

[ziaulislam]

Lol, this is the fake public narrative that is sold from populists.

Should I tell you the reality? People across the country at one point had huge sympathies for terrorist organisations and across institutions. Many cases of army men betraying the army to work for TTP. News anchors openly called terrorists as mujahideen and said soldiers killed were not shaheed. It was around APS this changed.

There was a roadmap made after but it wasn't implemented it because of usual lazy political games starting again

Reality is that Taliban were made by army and they propogated this..those were against Taliban were labelled as terrorists and anti Islamic

Easy to blame awaam for ISI choices for dollars

 

[krash]

Most people were literally even more illiterate then, than they are today

It's easy to build a narrative around certain individuals as messiahs using religion and get their support.

It doesn't speak anything about an individuals critical thinking capacity or reasoning behind it

That is an unfair analysis of the amazing feat that was achieved by the Quiad. He was seen as an outsider, to put it mildly, by the overwhelming majority of the Muslim population of the subcontinent for the majority of his life. The lack of support and extreme of dejection was enough for him to go into self-exile. He only gained unwavering support at the very end due to his obvious and unwavering pursuit of his people's collective interests. As also accepted and praised by his enemies of the time. I would say that his is the foremost example counter to your argument.

This archaic narrative of the sheep needing a shepherd is only perpetuated by the wolves running the flock.

 

[CynicalPakistaniCritic]

Reality is that Taliban were made by army and they propogated this..those were against Taliban were labelled as terrorists and anti Islamic

Easy to blame awaam for ISI choices for dollars

Maybe I would have believed if I didn't see so many extremist Taliban supporters myself

Because Pakistanis are the most progressive and peaceful people on Earth right? Totally not extremist and easily manipulated using religion?

 

[CynicalPakistaniCritic]

You didn't answer my question
If Pakistan people are jahil then obviously formation of Pakistan was wrong

People of Pakistan are jahil yes, if you want to make that conclusion out of it then sure, most people of Pakistan just sat through the formation of Pakistan they didn't have any involvement or real strong opinion unless swayed by religious arguments