HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions

[Ak01]

for your ease lagge raho

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322310209_Analytical_Modelling_and_Validation_of_RD-93_Turbofan_Engine_at_Design_Conditions

RD-93 fuel flow and efficiency.

I have recently done some tests on the max AB times and fuel economies of various jets in DCS and have come across two outliers in my testing. One of which is the JF-17, powered by the RD-93. It has a longer full afterburner time with much less internal fuel than comparable single engine aircraft...

forum.dcs.world

also read

What are the advantages and disadvantages of RD-93 MA compared to F404 and F414?

Imported

Assistant
Poe


The RD-93 MA, F404, and F414 engines have different characteristics and performance capabilities. Here are some general advantages and disadvantages of each engine:
RD-93 MA (Russian Engine):
Advantages:

1. Thrust: The RD-93 MA engine offers a higher thrust output compared to the F404 and is comparable to the F414, which can provide improved acceleration and maneuverability.
2. Cost: Russian engines often come at a relatively lower cost compared to their Western counterparts, which can be a significant advantage in terms of affordability and overall project cost.
3. Experience: The RD-93 MA is derived from the RD-33 engine, which has been used in various aircraft, including the MiG-29. This heritage brings with it a wealth of experience and knowledge in operating and maintaining Russian engines.

Disadvantages:

1. Technological Gap: Russian engines, including the RD-93 MA, may not incorporate the latest advancements in Western engine technology, such as advanced materials, fuel efficiency, or reduced maintenance requirements.
2. Logistical Support: Acquiring Russian engines may require additional considerations for spare parts, maintenance, and technical support, especially if India's defense infrastructure is primarily built around Western engines.
3. Geopolitical Dependencies: The use of Russian engines may introduce geopolitical dependencies, including potential restrictions on technology transfers, spare parts availability during times of political tension, or limitations on customization and integration with other systems.

F404 (General Electric Engine):
Advantages:

1. Reliability: The F404 engine has a proven track record of reliability and has been widely used in various aircraft worldwide.
2. Established Infrastructure: Many countries, including India, have already developed infrastructure, maintenance capabilities, and a supply chain for the F404 engine due to its extensive use in multiple aircraft programs.
3. Technological Features: The F404 incorporates advanced technologies, such as Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC), which provides precise control and monitoring capabilities.

Disadvantages:

1. Thrust: The F404 engine typically offers lower thrust compared to the RD-93 MA or F414, which could impact the aircraft's acceleration and maneuverability.
2. Cost: The F404 engine may generally be more expensive compared to the RD-93 MA, which can influence the overall cost of the aircraft program.
3. Customization: The F404 engine may have limitations in terms of customization and integrating with certain features or systems specific to the Tejas aircraft.

F414 (General Electric Engine):
Advantages:

1. High Thrust: The F414 engine provides a higher thrust output compared to both the RD-93 MA and F404, which can enhance the aircraft's performance, particularly in terms of acceleration, climb rate, and payload capacity.
2. Advanced Technology: The F414 incorporates modern technologies, including FADEC, improved fuel efficiency, and reduced maintenance requirements.
3. Commonality: The F414 engine is used in various aircraft, including the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet, which can lead to potential benefits in terms of supply chain, maintenance capabilities, and interoperability.

Disadvantages:

1. Cost: The F414 engine may have a higher initial cost compared to the RD-93 MA or F404, which can impact the overall program budget.
2. Logistical Considerations: If India opts for the F414 engine, it may require the development of additional infrastructure, maintenance capabilities, and training to support the engine's specific requirements.
3. Technology Transfer: The acquisition of the F414 engine may involve certain restrictions on technology transfer, depending on the terms of the agreement between India and the engine manufacturer.

It's important to note that the advantages and disadvantages listed here are general in nature and should not be considered an exhaustive assessment. The final decision on engine selection would require a detailed evaluation of various technical, financial, and strategic factors specific to the Tejas program and India's defense requirements.

im not seeing any figures with the units of W or kW...? Care to give me an answer?

 

[Guru Dutt]

im not seeing any figures with the units of W or kW...? Care to give me an answer?

no one will give you that perfect answer at least on social media ... we live in india and have intellectual property rights & ;laws against classified information taken seriously dont want a notice against me

but for that specific question a LCA with all those self protection suits and next gen avionics and LRUs and a supporting Liquid cooled GaA based AESA FRC with say 700 TERMs may need in total of 5-6 KWA of peak power output which GE404 just manages and in process gives a pressure on fuel consumption but a RD93 cannot as it produces less than 5KWA of peak power output .... no sir no PAF fighter as of now has RD93 MA exept a couple of experimental batch of JF17 BLK III

there is a reason why MOD/PMO is so keen in doing a engine deal with GE of USA for local manufacturing of GE414s as the real demand for them is close to at least 500 engines cause on the first MLU all LCA MK1 & MK1As will be upgraded with a GE $!$ engine ... US CONGRESS has already cleared the deal for local indian manufacture and tranfer of technology of GE414 engines to India

 

[MirageBlue]

The picture is one of my favourites of Tejas
It looks like a proper genuine fighter so easily assume it's french built.
Looks like rafales
younger smaller brother

I would love to know how Tejas mark one faired in excercises

Yeah, the Mirage design influence is visible and some what natural given Dassault was the chosen consultant for the LCA when it's configuration was being finalized.

The Tejas Mk2 will be a real looker, given it's proportions are more Mirage-2000 like, that too with close coupled canards. I'm really looking forward to it more than anything else in the next couple of years followed by TEDBF which has clear Rafale similarities.

As per Saurav Jha (a very well respected defence journo in India) the Tejas Mk1 did very well in the Ex Desert Flag VIII. But nowadays you don't get to hear direct testimonies like we did after the first few exercises with the French and the Americans.

 

[MirageBlue]

Kaveri engine is expected to generate 91KN thrust once ready it can replace the 83KN GE-F404 engine in Tejas

Let's hold our horses till this is demonstrated.

 

[harpy1]

Yeah, the Mirage design influence is visible and some what natural given Dassault was the chosen consultant for the LCA when it's configuration was being finalized.

The Tejas Mk2 will be a real looker, given it's proportions are more Mirage-2000 like, that too with close coupled canards. I'm really looking forward to it more than anything else in the next couple of years followed by TEDBF which has clear Rafale similarities.

Like everyone else really looking forward to mark two as well
Infact if I was the one making decisions
I would not bother with Tedbf . For one you eat up huge budget I understand around 15/20 thousand crore that is like 1.5billuon dollars probably double that eventually ..I don't care how much expertise we have we cannot manage and develope

Tedbf and Amca at the same time.

I would just license build rafale M Standard air force variant at home

 

[harpy1]

For me the future of Indian air power both air force and navy should be as follows
Tejas mark one and Two now 300 fighters next decade fifty fifty split
Rafale only import around 40/50 fighters govt deal
Rafale navy import around 60 fighters both aircraft carriers govt deal

Keep 200 mki upgrade as many as we can until 2050 when mass Amca come in big no's

Mark one Amca is needed by 2040

 

[Guru Dutt]

For me the future of Indian air power both air force and navy should be as follows
Tejas mark one and Two now 300 fighters next decade fifty fifty split
Rafale only import around 40/50 fighters govt deal
Rafale navy import around 60 fighters both aircraft carriers govt deal

Keep 200 mki upgrade as many as we can until 2050 when mass Amca come in big no's

Mark one Amca is needed by 2040

already decks are bieng cleared and the policy will be implimented with adequet inputs and upgrades to incorporate public private partnership in defnce equipment mass manufacture post elections

now LCA MK1A and later B versions are going to be mainstay of IAF replacing Mig21 , Jaguars and even Mirage2000s while Rafales will replace Mig29s and older SU30s

while there will be a few squads of F35 and later AMCA to replace Su30MKIs entire fleet and all this going to happen really fast

 

[harpy1]

Not sure about F35

If we go with Rafale we will not get second imported jet imo

 

[Circadian Rhythm]

Right now Only ONE MK 1A is Operational

While We are excited about MK1 A, We must remember that Even Mk 1 is now a very capable fighter

It has been equipped with Both High and Low Band Jammers

Only Difference is AESA in case of MK 1A

But the Current Radar of Mk 1 is at par with RDY 3 of Mirage 2000

MK 1 are also equipped with DERBY BVRAAMs and Python Close Combat Missiles

Tejas Mk 1 has already demonstrated 3 Sorties per Day in IAF exercises

We already have a shortage of Planes So With 31 MK 1 fighters and 5 trainers , available Today , We can Make Good use of Tejas Mk 1 in Both Defensive and Ground Attack Roles

 

[Guru Dutt]

Right now Only ONE MK 1A is Operational

While We are excited about MK1 A, We must remember that Even Mk 1 is now a very capable fighter

It has been equipped with Both High and Low Band Jammers

Only Difference is AESA in case of MK 1A

But the Current Radar of Mk 1 is at par with RDY 3 of Mirage 2000

MK 1 are also equipped with DERBY BVRAAMs and Python Close Combat Missiles

Tejas Mk 1 has already demonstrated 3 Sorties per Day in IAF exercises

We already have a shortage of Planes So With 31 MK 1 fighters and 10 trainers , available Today , We can Make Good use of Tejas Mk 1 in Both Defensive and Ground Attack Roles

LCA was made as a high avilabilty and low mantinence low cost alternative to replace aging soviet era airfleet of IAF

now intially HAL and MOD were slow in responding with clearing the beurocratic hurdels and then came the internation semicunductor supply crunch which delayed supply chain of many critical parts making manufacturing difficult intially of MK1A but now decks have been cleared and things are coming just fine

and yes LCA dose not uses python but ASRAAM and I DERBY ER or ASTRA MK I combo while nagociations are on for MICA NG also in limited numbers for Rafale and MK1As

 

[MirageBlue]

Like everyone else really looking forward to mark two as well
Infact if I was the one making decisions
I would not bother with Tedbf . For one you eat up huge budget I understand around 15/20 thousand crore that is like 1.5billuon dollars probably double that eventually ..I don't care how much expertise we have we cannot manage and develope

Tedbf and Amca at the same time.

I would just license build rafale M Standard air force variant at home

It is far better to spend more (and in fact in the long run you don't) on an indigenous development program in the present, than to just license produce someone else's design.

The TEDBF builds expertise in India (especially in the naval aviation field which is very niche), provides more work to suppliers both private and public, utilizes the existing infrastructure set up for the Tejas program, thus justifying their expense and most importantly the IP is Indian, which means we can do whatever we want with that design, develop as many variants as we want and develop it to the fullest degree within India rather than depending on anyone else to play ball.

India is not going to be a small or even mid-size economy. It will in the next 8-10 years be the 3rd largest economy in the world after the USA and China. It's time we start thinking like that.

 

[MirageBlue]

LCA was made as a high avilabilty and low mantinence low cost alternative to replace aging soviet era airfleet of IAF

now intially HAL and MOD were slow in responding with clearing the beurocratic hurdels and then came the internation semicunductor supply crunch which delayed supply chain of many critical parts making manufacturing difficult intially of MK1A but now decks have been cleared and things are coming just fine

and yes LCA dose not uses python but ASRAAM and I DERBY ER or ASTRA MK I combo while nagociations are on for MICA NG also in limited numbers for Rafale and MK1As

Tejas Mk1 test fired Python V missiles as part of a series of test firings, 3 years ago (test fired on April 27, 2021). Ergo- if the Python V is available, it can be used by the 2 squadrons of Tejas Mk1 that are operational.

LCA Tejas gets Python V

 

[Guru Dutt]

Tejas Mk1 test fired Python V missiles as part of a series of test firings, 3 years ago (test fired on April 27, 2021). Ergo- if the Python V is available, it can be used by the 2 squadrons of Tejas Mk1 that are operational.

LCA Tejas gets Python V

IAF sure went withTesting R73 also before Python V on LCA platform and yes Both R73 and PYTHON V are compatiable with LCA as close quarter missiles but problem with PYTHON V is large number of control surfaces on it making it highly terbulent specially in sub sonik flight some even call it as vortex geretor thats the main reason why ASRAAM is bieng chosen as common close quarter missile for Mirage2000 & LCA and even Jaguars and Su30 MKI while same IAF & Israelies had even incorporated R73 into Mirage2000 though Dassault objected with it initially .... point is IAF with help of Israelies and french has now intigrated all Air to Air Missiles with all its frontline fighter aircrafts for sake of comminality

 

[vkdindian]

Tejas Mk1 test fired Python V missiles as part of a series of test firings, 3 years ago (test fired on April 27, 2021). Ergo- if the Python V is available, it can be used by the 2 squadrons of Tejas Mk1 that are operational.

Which is the longest range BVR on Tejas? Can it outrange AMRAAM armed F-16s?

 

[Guru Dutt]

Which is the longest range BVR on Tejas? Can it outrange AMRAAM armed F-16s?

also which F16

is it F16 BLK 52 of Pakistani Air Force

of F16 SUFA of Israeli Air Force

or F16 of Turkish Air Force without latest US upgrade kits