PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[Zarvan]

J31 on paper capability vs J35 ? anyone ?
and if materialized, will it be air superiority or a Striker ?

It would be a multirole jet.

 

[Quwa]

Interesting, since it puts these typical fan-boy claims "there are already more than the 20 known J-10s in Pakistan" & "there is already a contract signed for more" (some claim even 80+) ... all based on "brother I told you" and "brother I know better" into a new perspective and even more so these claims "soon - aka in less than two years" we'll see the J-31 in PAF-colours"!

I think people are confusing how the PAF plans for things with what the PAF already has in the pipeline. The PAF would never induct a new fighter platform without planning for 80-90+ units - e.g., Mirage III/5, F-16, and JF-17.

Several retired PAF AMs told me that scalability is a big part of the equation; if the PAF just wanted 24 aircraft, it would acquire the Typhoon or Su-35. However, AHQ always seeks a high-performance fighter the PAF can field in numbers.

However, and this is a big caveat, the PAF roadmap is an empty bottle that the acquisition pipeline is supposed to fill. In other words, the PAF wants 90 J-10CEs, but it only has 20 in its hands and, for now, that's it. When the funds become available, it'll order more J-10CEs, but across small batches.

That said, I find it interesting that despite all of the shady issues at the top, AHQ always has a sanity check at the end. They could've easily gone the glitz and glamour route and asked for 24 Typhoons, and that'd be it for the next 12-15 years.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[m52k85]

I seriously wonder why you even bother with a forum like this, stick to Sino defence

Someone who is quoted as expert by newspapers and thinktanks, puts in the hard work to push buttons "everywhere", meticulously indexes, arranges, correlates and documents it.. Some people see that as a trait for which he ought to be criticised, most will see it as good hard work. Nothing to hide.

 

[MastanKhan]

I seriously wonder why you even bother with a forum like this, stick to Sino defence

Hi,

He is here to snoop---.

 

[MastanKhan]

Someone who is quoted as expert by newspapers and thinktanks, puts in the hard work to push buttons "everywhere", meticulously indexes, arranges, correlates and documents it.. Some people see that as a trait for which he ought to be criticised, most will see it as good hard work. Nothing to hide.

Hi,

Expert at what---public forum information---stolen information.

News from other sources---never ever an input and prediction of his own---. Never ever any tactical or strategic information.

 

[Deino]

Hi,

He is here to snoop---.

As if the little bit of information here from the forum is anything worth


... well no, but honestly, I'm a masochist and I'm really into dealing with old frustrated know-it-alls or young testosterone-driven fan boys and insults from people like you who have no idea but constantly lie and insult really turn me on.

Grrrrr… so please go ahead!

 

[Awwad]

The PAF would never induct a new fighter platform without planning for 80-90+ units - e.g., Mirage III/5, F-16, and JF-17.

I think this creates confusion among the fan boys. People extract only the quantity from such analysis but do not understand that this is a very long term planning. When you say PAF might have planned upto 80 units, they will assume these are going to be here in next 3 years. It maybe upto 2035 before such numbers are reached, by then the impact of 80 J-10Cs in indo/pak scenario won't be super attractive anyways.

The excitement / The urgency / the hopes & wishful thinking of fan boy club to acquire such number of units in 2-3 years is associated to see balance of power in PAF's favor. Excited fan boys cannot accept that everything will take its normal due course and nothing is happening exceptional / out of ordinary for PAF. PAF has planned its future acquisitions in a smooth way that it will upgrade itself gradually with time & age and not ahead of time. PAF is upgrading itself as all other airforces in the world are upgrading.

The value, strength & relevance of PAF right now with JF-17s / J-10Cs / F-16s may remain same by 2035, even though by then PAF will have J-31s and more J-10Cs because by then the whole world would have been progressed and Pakistan's adversaries too.

Only thing which should actually create excitement is indigenous capabilities & local industry and Lesser dependence. Otherwise, newer platforms will keep coming with passage of time and older platforms will keep retiring. A natural process just like one generation goes and next generation comes. Nothing fancy about it.

 

[Quwa]

I think this creates confusion among the fan boys. People extract only the quantity from such analysis but do not understand that this is a very long term planning. When you say PAF might have planned upto 80 units, they will assume these are going to be here in next 3 years. It maybe upto 2035 before such numbers are reached, by then the impact of 80 J-10Cs in indo/pak scenario won't be super attractive anyways.

The excitement / The urgency / the hopes & wishful thinking of fan boy club to acquire such number of units in 2-3 years is associated to see balance of power in PAF's favor. Excited fan boys cannot accept that everything will take its normal due course and nothing is happening exceptional / out of ordinary for PAF. PAF has planned its future acquisitions in a smooth way that it will upgrade itself gradually with time & age and not ahead of time. PAF is upgrading itself as all other airforces in the world are upgrading.

The value, strength & relevance of PAF right now with JF-17s / J-10Cs / F-16s may remain same by 2035, even though by then PAF will have J-31s and more J-10Cs because by then the whole world would have been progressed and Pakistan's adversaries too.

Only thing which should actually create excitement is indigenous capabilities & local industry and Lesser dependence. Otherwise, newer platforms will keep coming with passage of time and older platforms will keep retiring. A natural process just like one generation goes and next generation comes. Nothing fancy about it.

Irony is that even if the PAF had all the money, it wouldn't get that many J-10CEs that soon. The program would still take 7-10 years at minimum. Look at how long it's taking India to acquire Rafales, for example.

 

[PakFactor]

Irony is that even if the PAF had all the money, it wouldn't get that many J-10CEs that soon. The program would still take 7-10 years at minimum. Look at how long it's taking India to acquire Rafales, for example.

In my last conversation with an active PAF member, he said 90-100 units are planned; he was the one who disclosed to me that J-10's will be at the parade when I mentioned it in the old PDF; however, the main issue is the cash crunch.

Until the economic situation is sorted out, it will be a hard grind.

 

[Quwa]

In my last conversation with an active PAF member, he said 90-100 units are planned; he was the one who disclosed to me that J-10's will be at the parade when I mentioned it in the old PDF; however, the main issue is the cash crunch.

Until the economic situation is sorted out, it will be a hard grind.

The advantage of acquiring the J-10CE is that production for the PLAAF will continue for the foreseeable future. So, the opportunity to buy - and in small batches - will be there for some time. A challenge with Western jets is that unless there is a big backlog (e.g., Rafale and F-16), you may have to commit to what you'll need upfront, or risk losing access to the jet due to a closed production line (e.g., India M2K).

 

[PakFactor]

The advantage of acquiring the J-10CE is that production for the PLAAF will continue for the foreseeable future. So, the opportunity to buy - and in small batches - will be there for some time. A challenge with Western jets is that unless there is a big backlog (e.g., Rafale and F-16), you may have to commit to what you'll need upfront, or risk losing access to the jet due to a closed production line (e.g., India M2K).

That is very true in your assessment as well. We might, with the production line running, see unit costs come down if the Chinese build up on the J-10. However, I'm not sure if the Chinese will go the full stealth or a High-Low Mix down the road as it will have to counter the Pacific coalition building up; that could determine our PAF future as well as align with the Chinese.

 

[gusto]

As if the little bit of information here from the forum is anything worth


... well no, but honestly, I'm a masochist and I'm really into dealing with old frustrated know-it-alls or young testosterone-driven fan boys and insults from people like you who have no idea but constantly lie and insult really turn me on.

Grrrrr… so please go ahead!

Deino, why don't you shut Mastan up by giving reference to your thought provoking articles or contributions by attaching links or posting here negating his point with your input about absence of tactical and strategic information as he say?

let's do it man ... what's the big deal.

 

[arjunk]

Tejas is superior to any fighter jet in the PAF inventory, except for the J10C. By comparing specifications, it's clear and obvious, even without expert knowledge.

And one F-7 is far superior to the whole IAF.