Clashes with Afghan Taliban break out again: Taliban removing fence and covering for TTP infiltration

[Lulldapull]

I'm just hoping for one thing.......these talibunny end up fuc**** around with the Molvi in Tehran some day, like they Fuk**** wid us daily.......Iranio nay in key naslain khatam ker deni hain like total death march situation, just like in da Sy-Raaq. Kuttay dey tarha maarna hae in Afghanio ko pharr k. I know Iranis are capable of dishing it out...... reality/ justice/ vengeance like there ain't no tomorrow. I'm just waiting for dat day very patiently. Hamain kuch nahi karna.....Inshallah!......

 

[Shadow]

I can see you're a victim of online Indian trolls. No such thing brother. Plenty of pro-army Pakistanis. People here hate the Taliban btw. IDK why, but for some reason you guys seem to forget that the Taliban have murdered and killed countless Pakistanis in suicide bombing and shooting rampages. Pakistanis will never accept the Taliban. We hate our government sure. We defo hate religious extremists and fundamentalists more. No space for Mullay and relgious extremists in Pakistan. You are living in a fools paradise if you think otherwise. Biggest religious parties such as TLP,JUI and even Jamat barely get more than 2 seats in elections.

That's a magic of form 47 they got less seats don't mix up Islamic sharia with extremism....

 

[Baadil]

You can be extremely religious personally but secular at the same time.

Bring your evidence

Secular people exist in different civilizations,cultures and ethnicities.

On what basis are “Muslims” an ethnic group or monoculture? Where is your evidence than secularism is within the Islamic paradigm?

And as for the quote of Jinnah serving no purpose, there’s plenty more quotes provided by @Asfandyar Bhittani

To reiterate, addressing Pakistan’s identity crisis, including confronting misinformed interpretations of Jinnah’s Vision (which itself may have contradictions and should be able to be critiqued), is directly relevant to resolving issues with Afghans, and the existence of the present Afghan regime provides a now or never moment of resolving this crisis.

 

[MapleKing]

That's a magic of form 47 they got less seats don't mix up Islamic sharia with extremism....

The thing that truly sells in Pak is "Pan-Islamo-Pakistani Nationalism" which PTI was able to capture a major chunk of from the Army and Maulvis.
The support for militant groups is very localized and sporadic. Massive movements like TLP eventually lose steam as soon as establishment backs off.

 

[panzerfaust 3]

No.

,

If you are not aware of it, nothing short of a clawed hammer skilfully wielded by the muscular arm of a professional will make you aware. Do not be stupid. My few remaining hours cannot be wasted on this kind of tripe.

Probelm with over-enlightened beings is that they think their version is closer to the truth, and your judgement here on this forum is worth more than the combined voting power of india
A democratically elected government is a problem ,the same people were somehow quiet when the behaviour of past governments were nothing short of tyranny and
Left governments were seen as some kind of a beacon of hope! In some parts they still are

My problem is a democratically majority government is not fit to rule ? Because they are doing the exact opposite of minority appeasement ?
What makes someone think that they know what's better for billions of people , why not let them choose ? As as we previously have

Look up what-aboutery and stop disturbing this discussion. This kind of retarded schoolboy addled post is why I replied to @SecularNationalist as I originally did.

I have a problem with you !
Everytime someone starts a discussion with a different opinion or differs from you in viewpoint -

They get these insults! Talking about my stupidity? Retarded schoolboy addled post?
And almost always you never have time for the likes of us? This used to happen in the old forum and things have hardly changed

Looks to me like I have been in discussion with lord Buddha here ,and somewhere there's this ''gyaan ki ganga'' from which only he's worthy to drink

Please feel free to ignore my posts if they disturb your peace ! There no point in replying and calling it a waste of time

And no thanks i will find my own path, I have my own thought process ,no need for the hammer wielding muscular arm of yours - whatever the hell you call it!

 

[randomDude2024]

That's a magic of form 47 they got less seats don't mix up Islamic sharia with extremism....

Not calling Taliban who are following their version of Islamic Sharia "extrmists" is wild.

 

[Signalian]

This war seems an atheist's proof of living.

No religion, no versions of religion, no extremism - no war.

 

[Joe Shearer]

,

Probelm with over-enlightened beings is that they think their version is closer to the truth, and your judgement here on this forum is worth more than the combined voting power of india
A democratically elected government is a problem ,the same people were somehow quiet when the behaviour of past governments were nothing short of tyranny and
Left governments were seen as some kind of a beacon of hope! In some parts they still are

My problem is a democratically majority government is not fit to rule ? Because they are doing the exact opposite of minority appeasement ?
What makes someone think that they know what's better for billions of people , why not let them choose ? As as we previously have


I have a problem with you !
Everytime someone starts a discussion with a different opinion or differs from you in viewpoint -

They get these insults! Talking about my stupidity? Retarded schoolboy addled post?
And almost always you never have time for the likes of us? This used to happen in the old forum and things have hardly changed

Looks to me like I have been in discussion with lord Buddha here ,and somewhere there's this ''gyaan ki ganga'' from which only he's worthy to drink

Please feel free to ignore my posts if they disturb your peace ! There no point in replying and calling it a waste of time

And no thanks i will find my own path, I have my own thought process ,no need for the hammer wielding muscular arm of yours - whatever the hell you call it!

Did anyone force you to ask questions?
After getting the answers and finding they don't suit you, why whine?
I am putting you on my ignore list.

 

[SecularNationalist]

So do you feel the right to lecture us? In that case I find it funny
And yes we know about secularism maybe better than you

Look above someone from your country took a jibe at us that was unwarranted. He talked about identity crisis so I reminded you about the identity crisis you are facing. We are not the best but you aren't any better. But looks like few indian members including you here are hit hard by the truth. Learn to swallow the bitter pill.

 

[Nilgiri]

@SecularNationalist , interesting to read your replies in this thread.

Was wondering what your views are on Ataturk and Secularist ideology and principles taken w.r.t Turkish statism at the time.

I think this was/is the answer for more countries in the muslim world broadly speaking. Religion should not be wielded in the state as it will only impose great costs given the power dynamics found in the state. Religion (and metaphysics) is best left in the nation (after core truths are brought to form the basis of making the state law) while the state focuses on achieving objective rational things. I call this the minimalist approach for a state....rather than maximalist one which burdens the state and then people from the get go after formation.

If you are interested to explore further, I can tag you to where larger convo is shaping up for this.

 

[شَاھِین شَاہِ لَولَاک]

taliban anger is somewhat justified.
general musharraf betrayed the whole nation when he unilaterally decided to give military bases to americans to bomb afghan taliban. it is a well known fact that US was behind his rose to power.
also every one knows that 9/11 was an inside job and despite knowing it musharraf plunged this entire region into a civil war and chaos by giving military bases to US.
one must not forget the fact that the majority of taliban who are fighting pakistan army today were young and teenagers at the time of US invasion of afghanistan. they too have lost their loved ones to the illegal occupation. they lost their homes jobs careers livelihood etc. so naturally they blame pakistan.

KHORASAN will become a reality one way or the other. it has been prophecised by our beloved Prophet MUHAMMAD peace be upon him. its time for Pakistani ruling elite to learn from their mistakes and reconcile with taliban.

 

[EternalMortal]

Why are we so worried what the AT thinks?

The only indigenous solution is to draw up plans for the dissolution of Afghanistan.

It's not about what AT thinks. Just that every policy has its drawbacks. Pak establishment is focused on connectivity to central asia so the last thing they want is for Afg to be destabilized. In fact, no great power wants Afg destabilized right now. Neither the Chinese, Russians or even the Americans.

Ironically, establishment is working on a flawed understanding of geoeconomics. They think it's just trade routes lol. To be fair, the energy pipelines are a big concern.

The Afghan Taliban can't separate from TTP because it isn't just a basic proxy force, it's literally their own blood and they have the same ideology. It's like asking someone to kill their own brother.

All Afghan Taliban agree & support the TTP - but the internal divide is most want to openly house them in Afghanistan - while others say that it's going to harm the legitimacy of the Taliban government internationally.

There's zero dispute on whether TTP is good or bad - they all like & support it. They just want it to capture land in Pakistan so Afghanistan's name is not involved.

There would be an internal uprising if any Taliban official high up said anything about completely dismantling TTP - not because of them joining ISKP but because it's the same to them.

A lot of ppl have their theories about AT & TTP relationship. Yours is one of them but C11 is a professional think tank that includes retired army officers & professional researchers so I tend to give more weight to their view.

IMO, what you said is how many in the middle & lower tiers of AT view TTP. But at the top, the TTP is viewed differently mainly b/c the leaders want to run a regular nation-state & the TTP is getting in the way of that. Reality is that many AT members will join ISKP with TTP if they think AT has "betrayed" them. Establishment doesn't want Afg destabilized (see above why) so it's stuck b/w a rock and a hard place.

 

[EternalMortal]

taliban anger is somewhat justified.
general musharraf betrayed the whole nation when he unilaterally decided to give military bases to americans to bomb afghan taliban. it is a well known fact that US was behind his rose to power.
also every one knows that 9/11 was an inside job and despite knowing it musharraf plunged this entire region into a civil war and chaos by giving military bases to US.
one must not forget the fact that the majority of taliban who are fighting pakistan army today were young and teenagers at the time of US invasion of afghanistan. they too have lost their loved ones to the illegal occupation. they lost their homes jobs careers livelihood etc. so naturally they blame pakistan.

KHORASAN will become a reality one way or the other. it has been prophecised by our beloved Prophet MUHAMMAD peace be upon him. its time for Pakistani ruling elite to learn from their mistakes and reconcile with taliban.

Wrong. Musharraf wasn't installed by the Americans but to keep his rule he gave up a lot of concessions that we could have wrung out of them. You think Nawaz (the biggest coward in Pak politics) wouldn't have rolled over for the Neocons?

Musharraf actually tried to reason with the Americans to try & convince them not to invade but they wouldn't listen. Mush also tried to reason with AT to make them give up OBL but they did that too late (& wanted him to be tried in the GCC). Americans also threatened to send us back to the "stone age". India was also offering USA bases to attack us. What good would it have done to be invaded alongside Afg? Mush also saved the AT from being wiped out for better or worse. You think AT could've launched an insurgency without the army's help?

Was there another better option for everyone? Perhaps there was. But we can say that now only in hindsight.

 

[moonaman.varavayi]

MA Jinnah was secular its unfortunate later his ideology was hijacked. We got partition for Muslims of subcontinent but the constitution was meant to be separated from the religion. That's what secularism is and that's why I am a secular nationalist.

Do you think the vast majority of your countrymen share this view? Do most people want a secular republic, or an Islamic one?

 

[شَاھِین شَاہِ لَولَاک]

Wrong. Musharraf wasn't installed by the Americans but to keep his rule he gave up a lot of concessions that we could have wrung out of them. You think Nawaz (the biggest coward in Pak politics) wouldn't have rolled over for the Neocons?

Musharraf actually tried to reason with the Americans to try & convince them not to invade but they wouldn't listen. Mush also tried to reason with AT to make them give up OBL but they did that too late (& wanted him to be tried in the GCC). Americans also threatened to send us back to the "stone age". India was also offering USA bases to attack us. What good would it have done to be invaded alongside Afg? Mush also saved the AT from being wiped out for better or worse. You think AT could've launched an insurgency without the army's help?

Was there another better option for everyone? Perhaps there was. But we can say that now only in hindsight.

absolutely wrong. the noturious corps commander conference in which military elite gathered to discuss whether to give military bases to usa or not was just a clown show. musharraf had already decided to hand over bases to use. he never asked for the opinion of any corp commander present in that conference rather he simply told them of his decision and none of the corps commander dared to challenge him after they saw what happened to air chief marshal mushaf ali mir who was against giving military bases to US.
there was no point of handing over OBL to usa because taliban also knew he had nothing to do with 9/11.
india was not offering military bases to USA to attack us. rather offering miltary bases to attack taliban.
nawaz was a coward but he never handed over bases to usa, musharraf did.
pakistan had nukes. usa would have never ever dared to attack us.
if isi or musharraf saved taliban from being wiped out than why they are against pakistan now!!!! isi is just taking credit for something they never done.