Clashes with Afghan Taliban break out again: Taliban removing fence and covering for TTP infiltration

I am breaking my own sanity filter to set things right. As this is on a phone keyboard, it is not possible to go into any depth on these very complex issues. They DO NOT lend themselves to the kind of headline type of sensationalism that is in evidence.
The Muslim League was not driven by the country's Muslim theological leadership. Right from 1906 onwards, it was that segment of Muslim leadership that feared elimination of their community as a socially competitive social group that led the League and formed it's agenda.
Contrary to latter-day Hindutvavadi WhatsApp University educated pop historians, Jinnah did not set the agenda for the League. It had already been set by the oddly named founder of what finally became Aligarh Muslim University, that precisely addressed the potential widening gap between Muslims and Hindus in vying for opportunities in the service and professional sectors opening up where the Muslims had already fallen behind. It was set by Iqbal, who provided the emotional foundation for remembering their separate nature from the masses of India. Jinnah literally acted as their advocate.
This definition of themselves as separately constituted may be agreeable or disagreeable to us individually - I find it hateful - but this is what the League took up as its agenda - not a level playing field, but one favouring the Muslim community in their desperate bid to catch up with the Hindus, the Sikhs, the Parsis, all far ahead.
The political context has been alluded to.
This was a period marked by the alliance of the Ali Brothers with the Congress, united in the support of the Khilafat, of the towering personality of Maulana Azad, leading the Muslim clergy into steadfast support of the freedom movement, of, above all, the heroic figure of Badshah Khan, leading the frontier tribes into secularism and non-violence, in an astonishing tour de force of leadership that was not matched even by Gandhi at his peak.
And there was Gandhi, who had worked out the politics and the demagogy of the situation by himself, and startlingly reinvented himself as a traditional folk leader, with all the trappings that helped the Congress get the bulk of the largely disinterested Indian population into the struggle.
These were the factors that led the League to emphasise the separate nature of their community, a segregation that was, they felt, a critical factor in giving themselves a chance at achieving parity.
This is why the present - and all past - Pakistani administrations have stridently sought from their outset, insistence on parity. Even when patently ridiculous, they insist on parity.

So there it is.
Pakistan was never formed as a theological Islamic state, but as a secular democracy that would repeat the value system of the majority and not betray the essentials of Islam.

It is the enormous gap between the narrative so far and what people encapsulate and represent in their posts that keep me out.

@SecularNationalist

Just b/c it was only a segment of the Muslim leadership that drove the movement does not diminish it's religious basis. Their fears were based on religious grounds & it was also supported by a segment of the religious leadership. Yes, at first the movement focused on parity within a single sovereign state no a separate one but even then they wanted parity with Hindus based on religious grounds & they wanted more of a loose confederation than a centralized union.

Even if they were the minority from the coreligionists, so what? Their basis for separation was religion. You can deny it all you want & bring in landlords & whatnot but religion was the driving force behind the country's founders & the rallying cause of their movement.

Besides, how can anyone looking at the situation today say that they were wrong & Maulana Azad was right? Wise & farsighted unlike the naive & foolhardy Indian Muslim leadership is more like it. We have our problems today but at least they don't include being lynched to death b/c you're a Muslim & quite frankly your guys' problems aren't that much different either so it's not like we would be better off with you.

In any case, Jinnah is on record saying multiple times that he wants a state based on ISLAMIC law. Granted, he and some other founders were more modernist in their view but in the end, in their view ISLAM was to be the basis of the state.
 
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This war seems an atheist's proof of living.

No religion, no versions of religion, no extremism - no war.
Why do you think religious discussions are banned on this forum? Because it is obvious that the quality of the forum will immediately go down the drain. Now apply that reasoning on a larger scale - to societies, nations etc.

Less religion = more peace and sanity.
 
Why do you think religious discussions are banned on this forum? Because it is obvious that the quality of the forum will immediately go down the drain. Now apply that reasoning on a larger scale - to societies, nations etc.

Less religion = more peace and sanity.
Context = Taliban and TTP plus other groups. Nothing else.
 
india was not offering military bases to USA to attack us. rather offering miltary bases to attack taliban.
Thank you for that relief.

Listening to gullible citizens who think that the Indian leadership stays up at night thinking of diabolical plans to undermine her neighbours has become an ordeal.

Thank you for at least one knowledgeable retort.
 
When was that? Please cite sources.
Tbh it was an online interview I watched a while back. Can't remember it though.

The bases thing may not be true tbh but india did give the full backing to USA mainly to outmaneuver weaken Pakistan.

Don't think anyone can deny that India would not have taken full advantage of a NATO occupied Pakistan. At the very least GB & AJK would have been taken from us already
 
Thank you for that relief.

Listening to gullible citizens who think that the Indian leadership stays up at night thinking of diabolical plans to undermine her neighbours has become an ordeal.

Thank you for at least one knowledgeable retort.

Joe, before patting yourself on the back, how do you think American planes, troops & supply lines would get to Afg if not from over Pakistan? Teleportation? I knew you guys had invented planes 5000 yrs ago but I didn't expect teleportation to be on the list too. Colour me impressed.

Ok, they offered it to attack "afghanistan" not Pakistan. Last time I checked, that route would need to go through Pakistan who would presumedly have denied them the airspace & land routes if they're going through India. What do you think would be the end result?

Considering that Pakistan & India are enemy states, yes I would expect them to come up with "diabolical" plans to weaken each other. They've been doing that for past few decades already. But muh rational thinking apparently doesn't include common sense
 
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Why do you think religious discussions are banned on this forum? Because it is obvious that the quality of the forum will immediately go down the drain. Now apply that reasoning on a larger scale - to societies, nations etc.

Less religion = more peace and sanity.
I think Lennon is a great musician and like to listen to his Imagine as much as the next guy. But that doesn't cloud my mind in understanding the enormous violence rendered by USSR, various wars within China over thousands of years, Pol-Pot, North Korea, etc.,
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Just b/c it was only a segment of the Muslim leadership that drove the movement does not diminish it's religious basis. Their fears were based on religious grounds & it was also supported by a segment of the religious leadership. Yes, at first the movement focused on parity within a single sovereign state no a separate one but even then they wanted parity with Hindus based on religious grounds & they wanted more of a loose confederation than a centralized union.
My extensive reading, and detailed discussions, particularly on PTH, have led me and a group of others to conclude as I have summarised. It was not based on religion, it was based on a grave concern for the future of a religious group.

There is a difference.

You are, of course, free to disagree. My reasons for my conclusion are clearly laid out. Merely repeating that it was based on religion reduces the argument to a question of who can shout louder, or longer. I have no time for such games either with Pakistanis or with Indians who are obsessed with proving that a secular outlook was never in the picture for Pakistan.

Please feel free to believe what you will. You may find consolation In the fact that on matters of faith, neither logic nor proof is required.
 
Put KPK political leaders in prison
Refuse to pay their dues(water royalties) while everything else being expensive there due to natural distance.
Block wheat access and food access whenever you want
And bomb and abduct people without due process

Nothing will happen people will take it peacefully as Pakistan is gift from God
View attachment 40991
Aye Aqlamand insan.

Fertilizers and affiliated constituents are used to make explosives' apart from the smuggling inside bags on many routes.

This is not "blocking" of food.

Why have you made it a mission of life to portray everything negatively by Government ?
 
I think Lennon is a great musician and like to listen to his Imagine as much as the next guy. But that doesn't cloud my mind in understanding the enormous violence rendered by USSR, various wars within China over thousands of years, Pol-Pot, North Korea, etc.,
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I am not claiming that there will be no violence without religion. Just that it is the main (but not only) cause of violence and conflicts.

Historically, or in the present world, a lot of violence and conflict will be reduced or altogether eliminated.
 
This is why the border needs to be adequately fortified (reinforced concrete pillboxes) and reinforced with ISR and good enough artillery. We have to be careful though. A tactic of the Talibs in the war with ISAF was to travel with their families near areas of fighting, knowing the ISAF rules of engagement. Unless it’s a major attack, aren’t these skirmishes just a few dozen men? If so, spending on affordable mini-PGMs to mitigate risk to civilians will prevent the a narrative being formed that civilians are being hurt or killed indiscriminately, and also the battle damage videos can be a deterrent to dissuade other miscreants from trying to attack into Pakistan.
ISAF had aerial QRF when its checkposts were attacked. FC has no such back up.
 
Ok, they offered it to attack "afghanistan". Last time I checked, that route would need to go through Pakistan who would presumedly have denied them the airspace if they're going through India.
My point was completely different. This supposed Indian offer was for maintenance stops. It had nothing to do with operational missions, and given Pakistani acquiescence with American plans would have been redundant if it had been made.

It hadn't.
 

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