Clashes with Afghan Taliban break out again: Taliban removing fence and covering for TTP infiltration

[EternalMortal]

My extensive reading, and detailed discussions, particularly on PTH, have led me and a group of others to conclude as I have summarised. It was not based on religion, it was based on a grave concern for the future of a religious group.

There is a difference.

You are, of course, free to disagree. My reasons for my conclusion are clearly laid out. Merely repeating that it was based on religion reduces the argument to a question of who can shout louder, or longer. I have no time for such games either with Pakistanis or with Indians who are obsessed with proving that a secular outlook was never in the picture for Pakistan.

Please feel free to believe what you will. You may find consolation In the fact that on matters of faith, neither logic nor proof is required.

Sure you have your view. No problem.

"It was not based on religion, it was based on a grave concern for the future of a religious group."

Grave concern for the future of a religious group based on their religious beliefs. Fixed it for ya. You're welcome!

"Merely repeating that it was based on religion reduces the argument to a question of who can shout louder, or longer. I have no time for such games"

Funnily enough you yourself have reduced it to as such here lol. No matter. I and many others have a different reading. We can leave it here.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Considering that Pakistan & India are enemy states, yes I would expect them to come up with "diabolical" plans to weaken each other. They've been doing that for past few decades already. But muh rational thinking apparently doesn't include common sense

That is the usual attempt at proving parity on the sides of both countries, and that is laughable. It is tiresome to come across these efforts to show that before 2014, there had actually existed comparable efforts against each other. With the solitary example of 1971, and that was sui generis, it was utterly one sided.

After 2014 was a different matter.

 

[Signalian]

Cobra gunships transferred to the western front alongside Mi-35s. Eastern front handed over to newly inducted Z-10MEs

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Please do not start believing tweets as they start pouring in.

PAA will never shift all its attack assets to one theater of war and considering the COIN war, 1 x AH-1F squadron whether 31, 33 or 35 could be shifted, not all squadrons. This isnt a childish video game where some teenager sees certain area of map under attack and sends in everything he has available. Even before a squadron is sent, a detachment of that squadron is passed across as advance force or advance party, say 4 out of 12 AH-1Fs. That Det is attached to a formation or put directly under Corps command.

Aesa nai hota k 50 gunships utha k bhej diye jayen. At this point its not even certain how many are in flying form and in service.

Secondly, the J-version was never in service, Its the S-version which was bought and upgraded to F-version.

 

[EternalMortal]

My point was completely different. This supposed Indian offer was for maintenance stops. It had nothing to do with operational missions, and given Pakistani acquiescence with American plans would have been redundant if it had been made.

It hadn't.

You call it "supposed" but then claim to know what it was really about. Sorry Joe, you can't have it both ways.

In any case, the discussion of India offering bases or "maintenance" stops is about explaining to that other guys what WOULD have happened if Pakistan denied the Americans. As I said previously, the offer may have been a lie or misunderstanding by the interviewee, but we can both agree that India would have taken full advantage of any American invasion of Pakistan

 

[Joe Shearer]

Grave concern for the future of a religious group based on their religious beliefs. Fixed it for ya. You're welcome

A singular misleading and almost intentional distortion.

A religious group being defined right at the outset by its beliefs is logical. To go from that to affirm that all its actions were based on religious belief is clearly a ludicrous proposition, except to the fanatic who must have his way.

I have read your arguments with the greatest attention, and have nothing more to add.

Please feel free to pursue your line of thinking, but do excuse me for dropping out.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You call it "supposed" but then claim to know what it was really about. Sorry Joe, you can't have it both ways.

It was published widely.

How old are you?

 

[EternalMortal]

That is the usual attempt at proving parity on the sides of both countries, and that is laughable. It is tiresome to come across these efforts to show that before 2014, there had actually existed comparable efforts against each other. With the solitary example of 1971, and that was sui generis, it was utterly one sided.

After 2014 was a different matter.

Not sure what you're trying to prove here. There's always been a balance between the 2 that both sides have found difficult to turn to their favour.

Don't know why you're comparing before & after 2014. Both India & Pakistan were using non-state proxies against each other well before then. So yes, "diabolical" plans have been happening for a long time.

 

[Signalian]

How old are you?

Joe I am sweet 16.

On a serious note, this thread contains a lot of misinformation about almost everything.

 

[Joe Shearer]

we can both agree that India would have taken full advantage of any American invasion of Pakistan

We can also agree that R2D2 lusted after Darth Vader.

Don't know why you're comparing before & after 2014. Both India & Pakistan were using non-state proxies against each other well before then. So yes, "diabolical" plans have been happening for a long time.

India was not.

That parity exists only to provide a fig leaf to uneasy consciences.

 

[EternalMortal]

A singular misleading and almost intentional distortion.

A religious group being defined right at the outset by its beliefs is logical. To go from that to affirm that all its actions were based on religious belief is clearly a ludicrous proposition, except to the fanatic who must have his way.

I have read your arguments with the greatest attention, and have nothing more to add.

Please feel free to pursue your line of thinking, but do excuse me for dropping out.

Strawman argument. I haven't claimed as such. What I have claimed is that the desire for a separate state is based on the religious beliefs of its founders & they were very clearly & openly expressing this.

I have nothing to add. You're clearly set on your belief. Feel free to continue denying Jinnah's explicit statements about wanting Islamic law.

Have a good one.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Joe I am sweet 16.

On a serious note, this thread contains a lot of misinformation about almost everything.

Lolol.

Good to see you posting. Pertinent as always.

 

[EternalMortal]

We can also agree that

Well that's one thing

India was not.

That parity exists only to provide a fig leaf to uneasy consciences.

Well sir, I have nothing to add if you're denying this as well.

It was published widely.

How old are you?

Ahh my bad, sorry. That was a lack of knowledge on my part. The interviewee had definitely been mistaken or maybe I'm misremembering what they said.

In my 30s. Not too old I hope.

 

[arjunk]

Regarding the secularism - Islamic debate

The issue with Pakistan exists at a societal level, otherwise at a state level it operates more as a hybrid regime where religion is taken into account but not the final decision

Pakistani society however is highly brainwashed around the ummah concept despite the fact it doesn't really exist at all - simply because your "ummah" doesn't even believe in it, they care for their own people like any sane person.

It's a highly extremist and uneducated society

Until people are mostly TOLERANT and WELL EDUCATED, they will mindlessly subscribe to a CULT, whether it is PTI, Ummahjeetism, or Ethnonationalism. Ummahjeetism is the least of the three evils.

Unfortunately the literacy rate in Pakistan is a staggering 55% (who can merely write their own name). Beighairat politicians will never allow population to be educated.

 

[arjunk]

Why do you think religious discussions are banned on this forum? Because it is obvious that the quality of the forum will immediately go down the drain. Now apply that reasoning on a larger scale - to societies, nations etc.

Less religion = more peace and sanity.

Sickular Congress comitted state sponsored pogroms against Sikhs. Same sickular congress also sent Indian Army and IAF to protect Hari Singh from backlash after he butchered 200,000 Kashmiri Muslims.

Thank you for that relief.

Listening to gullible citizens who think that the Indian leadership stays up at night thinking of diabolical plans to undermine her neighbours has become an ordeal.

Thank you for at least one knowledgeable retort.

Indian leadership and academia recently openly stated at least 5 times off the top of my head that they are planning to invade Pakistan, change the demography of Kashmir, or destabilize Balochistan.

Before that, they invaded East Pakistan unprovoked, on November 21 1971, after months of supporting Bengali terrorists, resulting in the break up of Pakistan.

And since 1947 they have always been barking about how Pakistan will be forced to become part of India

So forgive us for believing Indians honour their words.

 

[Baadil]

while the state focuses on achieving objective rational things

Sir, how is it determined which goals are both objective and rational?