PTI freedom movement against Judiciary and Establishment: News, Discussion & Updates

[SaadH]

On one hand you admit it's the army that is in the driving seat, but when asked who is responsible for the miserable condition of the country you hold everyone responsible but the Army, suddenly everyone else become ghaddar.

According to their doctrine, everything is working as planned, they've got the country exactly where they want it. Plagued with dis-functionality and on the verge of collapse, that's the only way they reckon it can be milked to the maximum for their relevance and enrichment.

 

[krash]

Commanding 7 lac troops and ruling 280 crore public including staffing politicians - not that dumb after all, ehh.

A monkey with a gun will do it just as well...would also have just as much right to. Except 'commanding 7 lac troops', of course.

 

[Signalian]

A monkey with a gun will do it just as well...would also have just as much right to. Except 'commanding 7 lac troops', of course.

Not a good analogy.

 

[Signalian]

@Signalian

Unfortunately, i do not have an Iota of respect for this slave jarnail worshipers. Signalian is another low lifer on this forum

Best of luck to you. May God take your troubles away, ameen.

 

[Signalian]

On one hand you admit it's the army that is in the driving seat, but when asked who is responsible for the miserable condition of the country you hold everyone responsible but the Army, suddenly everyone else become ghaddar.

Yes and the reason is Army didnt make corruption cultures that exist in Pakistani Civil and Govt sector of Pakistan, no mirco managing or levels even above it. ISI has its political wings that keeps tabs on things and does play its part in politics.

 

[Forsvaret]

Do you remember Cartoon-e-Azam

Patwari brain fart

 

[Forsvaret]

Yes and the reason is Army didnt make corruption cultures

Lol. Read this about systematic corruption in the army:

The ‘Crore Commanders’ of Pakistan army

The ‘Crore Commanders’ of Pakistan army

www.orfonline.org

 

[WildApache]

Military is waiting for India to start a misadventure , remember the armed forces are mainly occupied with the eastern border .
IF India tries to even act on its intentions which are barked daily by thier government Pak it seems is ready and will hit hard thus uniting the whole country every ethnicity will salute the heroes and all this will be forgotten .

 

[Signalian]

Commanding them with what brother? Im not speaking about the rank and file.

What have the generals actually achieved other than suppressing and violating its own citizens? What can they laud? Selling their own citizens to the yanks? Making obscene films to blackmail, extra judicial killings? Blatant election rigging? Kidnapping and ransoming/blackmailing citizens? Appropriating land and expensive plots? Taking their ill gotten wealth abroad?
Allowing the daily killings of their own soldiers by rag tag militia? Daily bombings in towns and cities.

The list gos on and on.

The generals are a curse, you know it and i know it.

Tell me one successful country that had a military with this much crazy control over an entire country.

Realize a few realities. Military is only fully functional body of the country that has the capabilities to undertake all types of operations as well deliver where needed. The civil structure has not been the strongest since independence. Govt departments lacked in their accord, and started depending upon military. Take this for example, Military needed its own tank, it made with chinese help, military needed own R&D so it set up its own institutions etc, where as Pakistan needed own car but even Adam failed or was made to fail by the Big-3. Military didnt end Adam, it was Civil establishment, but military got its own AFVs/fighters whenever needed. The training doctrine of military advocated to get done what is necessary and it is still in works today. Military doesn't need to suppress public, it has its own resources to get what it needs.

ISI as an intel agency, will report and intervene as it deems necessary. This is how every intel agency of all countries work, you can pick CIA, Mossad etc. In Pakistan's case, ISI is military intel agency, not civil like IB, so military background in agency part will exist. IB and FIA are political in their own paradoxes but weaker than ISI. Military already has own dedicated MI, FIU etc and other intel assets.

The question would still stand - the system in Pakistan is not favored towards public, which is why even if IB is brought on par with ISI, things wont change really. Politicians were/are never answerable to public, neither are Government officials, in fact not even other professions like doctors, lawyers etc.

Its in recent times that through the help of social media, when some incidents are highlighted by journalists or news media, then the Government does take notice. There comes another clash here - the working of intel agencies. The reports, the ops, the agents, the motive, the planning, the results - all the workings of intel agencies are never to be made public. Only a few knew and thats how all intel agencies work, not just Pakistan. But I have explained the nexus of military link in ISI instead of IB, so the fingers will point towards COAS and military, otherwise they would point towards PM and ministers or politicians. The fingers will always point towards someone. Lets say the military fall back from all intel scene, then generals go out of the scene too right ? who will you blame then ?

As for accomplishment, Pakistan isn't under Indian occupation, neither will it be as thats the Military's main purpose and its doing its job. The counter insurgency war is in progress and it will continue to do so. The military and Govt are fighting it so the country doesnt fall into extremism which is the basis for TTP's religious war.

Its just a long discussion. Pakistan's scenario is a strange one.

 

[Signalian]

Military is waiting for India to start a misadventure , remember the armed forces are mainly occupied with the eastern border .
IF India tries to even act on its intentions which are barked daily by thier government Pak it seems is ready and will hit hard thus uniting the whole country every ethnicity will salute the heroes and all this will be forgotten .

Pakistan Army is already at war on western front, the COAS will not open two fronts, this is why sending troops to Gaza will be sidelined too (even if that generates public votes in military's favor).Previously Pakistan military would send volunteers against IDF. When own territory is at risk, then that is the foremost mission of any armed forces.

 

[Forsvaret]

Pakistan Army is already at war on western front, the COAS will not open two fronts, this is why sending troops to Gaza…

Lol. The whole Gaza Strip is blockaded by Israel for decades. How would COAS send anything in there, yet alone his troops?

 

[Signalian]

Lol. The whole Gaza Strip is blockaded by Israel for decades. How would COAS send anything in there, yet alone his troops?

Post #41.
Lines 3 and 4.

 

[Signalian]

Does it matter? As long as they are Pakistani, they shouldn't bother you.

It doesnt even matter to DG ISPR or military. So being all jumpy about it is useless.

 

[PakAl]

Realize a few realities. Military is only fully functional body of the country that has the capabilities to undertake all types of operations as well deliver where needed. The civil structure has not been the strongest since independence. Govt departments lacked in their accord, and started depending upon military. Take this for example, Military needed its own tank, it made with chinese help, military needed own R&D so it set up its own institutions etc, where as Pakistan needed own car but even Adam failed or was made to fail by the Big-3. Military didnt end Adam, it was Civil establishment, but military got its own AFVs/fighters whenever needed. The training doctrine of military advocated to get done what is necessary and it is still in works today. Military doesn't need to suppress public, it has its own resources to get what it needs.

ISI as an intel agency, will report and intervene as it deems necessary. This is how every intel agency of all countries work, you can pick CIA, Mossad etc. In Pakistan's case, ISI is military intel agency, not civil like IB, so military background in agency part will exist. IB and FIA are political in their own paradoxes but weaker than ISI. Military already has own dedicated MI, FIU etc and other intel assets.

The question would still stand - the system in Pakistan is not favored towards public, which is why even if IB is brought on par with ISI, things wont change really. Politicians were/are never answerable to public, neither are Government officials, in fact not even other professions like doctors, lawyers etc.

Its in recent times that through the help of social media, when some incidents are highlighted by journalists or news media, then the Government does take notice. There comes another clash here - the working of intel agencies. The reports, the ops, the agents, the motive, the planning, the results - all the workings of intel agencies are never to be made public. Only a few knew and thats how all intel agencies work, not just Pakistan. But I have explained the nexus of military link in ISI instead of IB, so the fingers will point towards COAS and military, otherwise they would point towards PM and ministers or politicians. The fingers will always point towards someone. Lets say the military fall back from all intel scene, then generals go out of the scene too right ? who will you blame then ?

As for accomplishment, Pakistan isn't under Indian occupation, neither will it be as thats the Military's main purpose and its doing its job. The counter insurgency war is in progress and it will continue to do so. The military and Govt are fighting it so the country doesnt fall into extremism which is the basis for TTP's religious war.

Its just a long discussion. Pakistan's scenario is a strange one.

We are a nation of corrupt people, with no culture, values, morals, ethics. The Pakistanis in the western world when in power are the biggest sellouts, people sell themselves for power and influence. I agree with the military success but what people are not happy about is how army is toppling goverments, destroying institutes, video recordings, fake cases etc. Our army was the people army and look at it now, this is not any achievement. The civilian leadership is worse without a doubt, what have they ever managed? Dirty politics, the lies, false statements. corruption, bribery, tax evasion, the list goes on but still army must respect institutes and governments, they cannot be allowed to break law and get away with it whilst the common man has to pay for his mistakes. The civilian setup needs time to become strong but after so much time the army involves itself. It looks like its by design to keep them weaker. Another issue is why Pakistan failed to produce any decent leadership, looking at Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia and Iran, they have 100s of young and new leadership ready to take charge but we have the same old Nawaz and Zardaris, the youth want a change, it looks like overall as a nation we haven't developed.

 

[Signalian]

This story is so ridiculous that I can't even find a way to troll it..

It feels like the military is trolling people of Pakistan with this story and we are mistaken that they are serious

Here troll this.

Let me give you a scenario, do your best to do what you do best and since you are Bengali origin so I will keep it close to your 1971 fetish.

Police asks for military assistance in a round up on search mission for a rebel leader. Military sends a section level outfit commanded by a LT. Some 15 troops - 11 in truck, 4 in a jeep. They wear normal gear, not riot control with helmets n all.

The police is already in the area, and the military joins in as the jeep and truck stop, dismounting soldiers.

Now lets start with scenario for the X post on media .

X shout box - Tweet #1
"DG ISPR sends in ISI to hunt down ABC person".

Now do understand for common sense that DG ISPR doesnt send in ISI, thats what ISI Dets handle and ISI is never in uniform. Anyways lets continue the whole mission.

The LT tells the NCO to order troops to form a defensive ring, not fire at civilians but keep them away and dont allow them to come forward. Then LT runs into the building following police action as he has to make an official report eventually as administrative task.

The people see military defending policemen on the street.

X shout box -Tweet #2
"Soldiers with guns on street They are ordered to fire on civilians Soldiers pointing guns at public. Military taking over the country".

The protestors come forward with sticks. Soldiers shout to them to back off while making wall with guns in hand.

X shout box -Tweet #3
"Army armed with guns against defenseless civilians of Pakistan. My 2-year son is in the building, tortured by 20 more soldiers inside the building on 2nd floor".

NCO calls LT on radio and tells him the situation. LT tells him to keep public at bay and do not let the defensive line break. NCO asks for riot gear, LT says its too late. One of the protestors throws rock at soldier which injures his face. NCO tells him to break off and fall back. Protestors start throwing stones, soldiers cover faces. Injured soldier is assisted by NCO. A Seeing the numbers of protestors breaking the line, a Lance corporal fires a weapon n the air.

X shout box - Tweet #4
"Soldiers have started firing at civilians. Pakistan army shooting at public. COAS starting war against Pakistan. The real face of Army is seen. War started by Army".

LT runs down from stairs and comes out. The protestors had backed off but sensing shot fired, try to pick up gun left on ground by the injured soldier. They retrieve the gun and run back into the next street.

X shout box - Tweet #5
"Military gun now in hands of public, soldiers are retreating by throwing guns on ground, soldiers disobeying COAS orders and surrendering that we will not carry out orders to fire at Pakistanis. PTI zindabad, Pakistan paindabad".

A corporal tells 2 soldiers to retrieve the gun. They run off in the crowd and catch up after the man who stole the gun. A portion of crowd follows them and corners them. They get the stolen gun but are surrounded by the crowd.

X shout box - Tweet #6
" 2 Pakistan army soldiers have surrendered to the crowd. Soldiers dont want to fight COAS's war on Pakistan. Soldiers have decided to join PTI".

X shout box - Tweet #7
"Mutiny by Pakistan Army. soldiers all over the country are laying down arms".

LT not knowing the full situation (2 MIA) orders soldiers to round up and sit in the trucks as police riot teams come in to disperse crowd. 2 soldiers stranded on street. A minor military ops gone wrong.

X shout box - Tweet #8
"Pakistan Army soldiers are fleeing from the streets. GHQ holding meetings. Military lost control of the country. Corps commanders are surrendering their posts".

Riot Police finds 2 MIA soldiers and rescues them.

X shout box - Tweet #9
"Police commandos rescue Pakistani SSG. COAS has just asked GOC SSG to resign".

MP comes into the scene and is handed over the soldiers along with stolen guns.

X shout box - Tweet #10
"ISI death squad has come and taken soldiers to unknown location . The penalty for mutiny is death. ISI death squads ordered to shoot soldiers who commit mutiny. Pray for these soldiers ".

LT reports to 2IC/CO. MP brings in MIA soldiers. Injured soldier shifted to CMH.

Enjoy the reality, I may have exaggerated a bit but this is how it is shown in media