HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions

[Bhojpuranchali]

not so sure.

Why would MBDA deny integrating Meteor with Indian Radar ? They’re already selling meteor to India with rafales

 

[Circadian Rhythm]

Gripen and Eurofighter come along with METEOR

And we will be paying huge money to France for 26 Naval Rafales plus MRFA

We have every right to demand Meteor with Tejas

By the way HAMMER is already integrated with TEJAS

 

[MirageBlue]

Meanwhile, Ananthakrishnan says HAL is completing the integration of five major upgrades to the Tejas Mark 1, which will grant it the designation of Mark 1A.

Two of the five major improvements, which are practically complete, are to the airborne radar and the electronic warfare (EW) suite.

The Tejas Mark 1’s earlier, manually scanned array radar has been replaced by a far more capable AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radar that makes the Mark 1A far more capable and versatile in air-to-ground and air-to-air combat.

The second improvement to the Tejas Mark 1 involves the integration of new, self-protection jammers, and mission computers.

Revamped Tejas Mark 1A fighters ready for take-off: First batch of 16 to enter IAF service this year

www.ajaishukla.com

Once again, that is just a generic statement.

When the decision was being made to transition from Tejas Mk1 to Mk1A, there were 5 major changes -

1- AESA radar
2- AESA SPJ
3- Maintainability improvements
4- BVR missiles (although even Tejas Mk1 got it with Derby)
5- In-flight refueling capability

In addition, it got a new Mission Computer that is much faster with higher processing capability. Now, people are getting confused thanks to Ajai Shukla that this was referring to upgrading the existing 32 Tejas Mk1 single seat fighters to Mk1A standard.

That isn't what the HAL CMD was referring to. Although it is possible that the initial 16 Tejas Mk1 fighters at IOC config would be upgraded to get IFR probe.

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

Has the contract been signed? No, then how is a contract value even out there? HAL has to first respond to the RFP and then only, after the contract is signed, can a deal price be quoted.

Next batch of 97 Tejas MK1A is likely to be more expensive because all of them will come with Gallium Nitride UTTAM Aesa Radar and maybe even more modifications and features

 

[MirageBlue]

Why would MBDA deny integrating Meteor with Indian Radar ? They’re already selling meteor to India with rafales

MBDA wanted India to share integration level source codes of the radar in order to allow Meteor to be integrated with the Uttam radar.

Whether that will be done or not isn't clear.

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

Gripen and Eurofighter come along with METEOR

And we will be paying huge money to France for 26 Naval Rafales plus MRFA

We have every right to demand Meteor with Tejas

By the way HAMMER is already integrated with TEJAS

The Israeli radar in the Tejas is why it cannot integrate the Meteor missile. Once the Tejas has Indian UTTAM AESA radar, it will be no problem.

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

MBDA wanted India to share integration level source codes of the radar in order to allow Meteor to be integrated with the Uttam radar.

Whether that will be done or not isn't clear.

So what’s the problem with sharing source codes ?

 

[MirageBlue]

So what’s the problem with sharing source codes ?

1) It can be leaked, and fall into the hands of those whom you don't want to know the inner workings of your brand new AESA radar.
2) it could be used to derive a lot of information about the radar that could be used by NATO countries or even others, to build ECM measures against that radar.

You can see the list of issues that MBDA was having with regards to Meteor being integrated with an Israeli radar. They were trying to promote the European radars from Thales or Selex for Tejas Mk1A stating that the Meteor was already integrated with the RBE2 and Selex ES-05A.

Article link

And here is why it would be so hard to integrate Meteor with Uttam AESA as well. They would want working prototypes of the Uttam AESA radar to be handed over to them, not just source codes.

Then, in response to an IAF query whether the Meteor could be integrated onto the Uttam AESA radar the Defence R&D Organisation was developing, the MBDA gave conditional acceptance on July13, 2018.

Writing to the deputy chief, the MBDA wrote: ‘integration would be perfectly feasible (provided) this DRDO ‘UTTAM‘ radar would need to be shown to be completely indigenous.‘Making its security concerns clear, the MBDA wrote: ‘Security concerns (for all parties) over the implementation, architecture and day to day operation would need to be addressed (and) the 6 partner nations would need to obtain access to full working prototypes (of the Uttam radar) before progressing to the next stage.‘

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

1) It can be leaked, and fall into the hands of those whom you don't want to know the inner workings of your brand new AESA radar.
2) it could be used to derive a lot of information about the radar that could be used by NATO countries or even others, to build ECM measures against that radar.

You can see the list of issues that MBDA was having with regards to Meteor being integrated with an Israeli radar. They were trying to promote the European radars from Thales or Selex for Tejas Mk1A stating that the Meteor was already integrated with the RBE2 and Selex ES-05A.

Article link

And here is why it would be so hard to integrate Meteor with Uttam AESA as well. They would want working prototypes of the Uttam AESA radar to be handed over to them, not just source codes.

How many countries, apart from India, the USA, and the European Union, have GaN AESA radar technology? I believe France doesn't have it because Rafales don't use GaN AESA radars. GaN radar has a detection range that is double that of GaAs radar, clear advantage over GaAs radar.

 

[vikNerv]

The next batch of 97 Tejas MK1A jets is more expensive, possibly because the IAF requested modifications and enhancements.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/mod-sets-ball-rolling-for-equipping-iaf-with-97-tejas-lca-mk-1as-worth-rs-67k-cr-101712931150402.html

But, even at a price of $100 million, it's still cost-effective. Onky Few fighter jets worldwide are equipped with Gallium Nitride AESA radar and a 90% carbon composite body. The Tejas is the only fighter jet in the IAF inventory capable of carrying all advanced weapons in the IAF arsenal, including BrahMos NG and Meteor (after getting the UTTAM radar). Moreover, no Pakistani jet can fire Meteor-like missiles; even upgrading their F-16s to Block 70 standard would not enable them to fire Meteor like missiles.

Edited: was a bit too rude in my original.post.

i believe we should stop makijg sweeping statements about the GaN based radar we are developing for LCA, not yet atleast. All we know is GaN based tech is superior to GaS but we dont know the true capabilities of our new radar vs what Rafales have. A top tier product with older tech might still beat out a low end product from a newer tech. So dont dismiss other capabikites just because they use older tech, they are still very potent. Ex: the Bars radar on Su30mki is still very very potent. Yet it is not GaN or GaS or even AESA. Also, however good the LCA is, it's certainly not a match for block 70s.

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

Edited: was a bit too rude in my original.post.

i believe we should stop makijg sweeping statements about the GaN based radar we are developing for LCA, not yet atleast. All we know is GaN based tech is superior to GaS but we dont know the true capabilities of our new radar vs what Rafales have. A top tier product with older tech might still beat out a low end product from a newer tech. So dont dismiss other capabikites just because they use older tech, they are still very potent. Ex: the Bars radar on Su30mki is still very very potent. Yet it is not GaN or GaS or even AESA. Also, however good the LCA is, it's certainly not a match for block 70s.

The range of Gallium Nitride (GaN) radar is double that of Gallium Arsenide (GaAs) radar, it requires less power to operate, and it is not easy to jam. I don't want to debate whether the Tejas is better than the F-16 repeatedly, but one thing I would like to mention is that the IAF rejected F-16 in the 2008 MMRCA, deeming it obsolete, and instead shortlisted the Eurofighter Typhoon and Rafale.
F-16 was the first to be dropped by the Indian Air Force (IAF) when short-listing aircraft for the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) acquisition,

 

[DDG-80]

Ex: the Bars radar on Su30mki is still very very potent.

The N011M uses some tech from AESA radars, like each transceiver (the part that sends and receives signals) having its own receiver amplifier. This makes it more advanced because it reduces noise, similar to AESA radars, with a noise level of 3dB.

For sending out signals, the N011M uses PESA technology. Instead of multiple transmitters like in AESA, it uses a single transmitter called the Chelnok traveling-wave tube for its EGSP-6A system.

 

[vikNerv]

The range of Gallium Nitride (GaN) radar is double that of Gallium Arsenide (GaAs) radar, it requires less power to operate, and it is not easy to jam. I don't want to debate whether the Tejas is better than the F-16 repeatedly, but one thing I would like to mention is that the IAF rejected F-16 in the 2008 MMRCA, deeming it obsolete, and instead shortlisted the Eurofighter Typhoon and Rafale.
F-16 was the first to be dropped by the Indian Air Force (IAF) when short-listing aircraft for the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) acquisition,

I am not debating which is a better tech, I am saying we shouldn't compare the two products when one of them is still not developed. And more importantly, what's at the pinnacle of an older tech might be better than a hatchling from a newer tech. All I am saying is we don't go about saying our radar (not yet developed) is better than an operational one. Wait, watch, then gloat. Untill then, give credit where it's due.

 

[vikNerv]

The N011M uses some tech from AESA radars, like each transceiver (the part that sends and receives signals) having its own receiver amplifier. This makes it more advanced because it reduces noise, similar to AESA radars, with a noise level of 3dB.

For sending out signals, the N011M uses PESA technology. Instead of multiple transmitters like in AESA, it uses a single transmitter called the Chelnok traveling-wave tube for its EGSP-6A system.

It's still older tech than GaN. Point being, don't discount something because it's older tech, and don't gloat without the product ready. By all means gloat about the project to develop it, it's a good effort and should be appreciated. Just don't confuse product with project.

 

[kambhakt]

How many countries, apart from India, the USA, and the European Union, have GaN AESA radar technology? I believe France doesn't have it because Rafales don't use GaN AESA radars. GaN radar has a detection range that is double that of GaAs radar, clear advantage over GaAs radar.

From what I have read, GaN based radar is not ready for Tejas and will be there on Mk2. Do you have any link for it being installed on Mk1A.