As I said it’s conjecture. It does not have to be 100% local. The level of cooperation between China and Pakistan is much more than meets the eye. The Indian nukes had a lot of help from Russians. The main thing is there something under construction in the Naval Dockyard and it is always under wraps. It is not an Agosta 90B going through a refit. PN never hides its Agostas when they are in port. Whatever it is, it’s not big about 80 meters. But the rumors about the high pressure nuclear plant have been around for a while.
Hangor Class Submarine | Updates & Discussion
- Thread starter ghazi52
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Quwa
Research Partner
The PN will get the primary OEM of the SWATS program to help it design and build an original SSP (likely 1,000~1,300 tons). The new-gen SSP will gradually replace the Agosta 90Bs and further grow the PN sub-surface fleet.
The SWATS and original SSPs will play a big role in maintaining a credible A2/AD capability.
The next-gen SSP will be heavily optimized for stealth (e.g., non-magnetic steel, fuel cell AIP, lithium-ion batteries, etc) more so than speed and range (e.g., Hangor-class).
In terms of miniature SSKs, I think the area to watch for would be 70~120-ton XLUUVs.
Pakistan Ka Beta
Trusted Member
A Must watch show . Subscribe PTV World as well . Thanks .
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Pakistan Ka Beta
Trusted Member
Pakistan Navy lays the keel of the 2nd Hangor-class submarine - Naval News
On February 14, 2024, the Pakistan Navy announced the keel laying of the second Hangor-class submarine at the KS&EW facilities in Karachi.www.navalnews.com
A Must watch show . Subscribe PTV World as well . Thanks .
Quwa
Research Partner
@Oscar Interesting interview from several ex-PN officials. It gives us an indication of how NHQ had thought previously (and may still be today) on a few topics:
- Difference between a 'second-strike' capability and 'assured second-strike' capability. The Hangor SSPs would offer a second-strike capability, but for assured second-strike, the PN would need an SSBN. Transitioning to an assured second-strike capability should be the PN's ultimate aim.
- SWATS: Work is underway to either acquire a SWATS or, potentially, design and build one in-house. Basically the first semi-official mention of the PN original SSP/SSK we discussed across earlier threads.
Awwad
Registered Member
Some other important points:
- Communication mechanism with these subs.
- Importance of submarine bases. Admiral mentioned Hangors will be stationed at Ormara & Gwadar. ( That's critical. Stacking everything in Karachi is extremely risky. )
Oscar
Moderator
It comes down to having the reactor tech which seems to be a challenge for now. At the end however, there is as the admiral points out enough capability and capacity in place to ensure that India is not able to calculate any feasible future post such an exchange with Pakistan regardless of all the copy paste bravado we see here.
The issue however is who has the controls of the capability to be even prepared to use it based on no other option but that is a different discussion altogether.
arjunk
Trusted Member
Even a dirty 30kt bomb can irradiate Mumbai for centuries. 60% of Mumbai lives in densely packed slums. 300kt would be a mercy and give Mumbai a quick death.
Sparten
Registered Member
Reactor tech isn't challenge. Its the pumps, and other assorted machinery. Thet are noisy and there is no easy way to reduce that.
Some ways include building something like a Typhoon.....buidling a huge outer hull to cover multiple smaller internal hulls, this would be technically the easiest, but would require much expanded construction and latter support facilities.
A nuclear submarine in the 2,500 L Tons range is entirely feasible for Pakistan with help from our Chinese and Turkish friends. It will not require any expansion of the Naval Dockyard. It can be modeled after the French Rubis class nuclear subs, which were at 2,400 L Tons surfaced and 2,600 submerged. The interesting thing is that the pedigree of Rubis class was the Daphne and Agosta class submarines on which PN has a lot of experience. In the 90s two of the Rubis class were cancelled and the French tried to sell them as conventional submarines but no takers. Keeping in mind Pakistan’s relationship with France in those days, I will not be surprised that it was one the countries offered the conventional Rubis. In that case PN must have received the specifications and maybe even the blueprints of the sub. In any case we had the blue prints of the Agostas 90s. Rubis shares a lot of it subsystems with that of Agosta and assembling technology between two classes should not be too different. Rubis is powered by 48 MW Pressurized Reactor. Pakistan has been building low pressures reactors in the 50 MW range for years the challenge would be to making it pressurized and miniaturized. It has experience with small pressurized reactors because of the CANDU reactor at KANUPP. We don’t need boomers with vertical launched ballistic missile. We only need SLCM with a 1,000 KM range, we already have the technology.
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AZADPAKISTAN2009
Elite Member
Need those 8 Submarines , taken long time
- Type 039A: Original Yuan class, comprising four units (Changcheng 330 to Changcheng 333).[1] The most obvious external visual difference between Type 039A and its predecessor Type 039/039G Song-class submarine is in the conning tower. The conning tower of Type 039A is similar to that of Type 039G, but the tower lacks the fin-shaped extrusion on the rear section of the conning towers of both the Type 039 and the Type 039G.
- Type 039AG: This second member of Type 039A series is frequently but erroneously identified as its development, Type 039B, because externally, the two version looks the same above waterline. The only difference lies below the waterline, which is not readily observed, and it is believed that all Type 039AG have been converted to Type 039B. The most obvious external visual difference between Type 039AG along with its development Type 039B and earlier Type 039A submarine is also in the conning tower: the shape edge at the top of conning tower of Type 039A is replaced with smooth round shape transition. In addition, there is a bulge in the middle of the smooth transition in the forward portion of the conning tower housing some kind of sensor, and this is a new feature earlier Type 039A lacks.[9]
- Type 039B: This third member of Type 039A series looks identical to earlier Type 039AG from which it is developed from. Including those units upgraded as mentioned below, it comprises thirteen units (Changcheng 334 to Changcheng 346).[1] The biggest difference between Type 039B and Type 039AG is that Type 039B has incorporated flank sonar array, which was subsequently retrofitted on Type 039AG and some earlier boats. This difference, however, is not readily observable because the flank array is installed at the lower portion of the hull. It was only in the early 2010s when a Type 039B built by Shanghai Changxing (长兴) Shipyard exposed in the berth, when the flank array of Type 039B became publicized, thus distinguish the type from earlier Type 039AG that lacked the flank sonar.[9]
- Type 039B (upgraded): The fourth variant of the Yuan has been first publicized in December 2013, with a modified hull and redesigned conning tower with extrusion at the root of the conning tower in both the bow and stern direction, similar to that of conning tower of Virginia-class submarine. In addition, the bulge housing unknown sensors on board Type 039B in the forward section of the top edge of the conning tower is absent on the new boat launched in April 2014, but there are three white lines at the top of edge of the conning tower on both sides, presumably for environmental sensors. This new boat is claimed to be an upgraded variant of Type 039B.[9]
- Type 039C: A new variant commissioned from 2022 onwards with redesigned stealth sail. First spotted in May 2021 in Wuhan.[10] It comprises three units commissioned to date, with another five under development.[1]
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Which one is Hangoor , is it 39B (upgraded) or 039C
Type 040 A
Can you please share any open link or detail of type 40 a sub , I cannot find any online data of type 40 a .. thanks
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