Attrition losses PAF only 2016 onwards

[Falgrine]

there are total 5 aircrafts lost to date ... per my count

Think the number is 4.
1) Near Kamra, Oct 2011 during testing.
2) At night over Arabian Sea, High Mark 2016?
3) Bravo near Kamra, Jul/Aug 2021
4) This one.

There may be one that I am missing.

Thats 4/5 crashes in 14 years of operational service.
I would say it speaks of damn good maintenance and flight safety.

 

[Talon]

@Quwa @Oscar so there seems to be a PAF policy to not confirm any JF-17 crashes. If I am not wrong for none of the JF-17s that we've lost, PAF was not the first one to confirm it and in one case, still hasn't. I'm sure the world can see this policy and doesn't bode well for PAF's credibility.

The policy is with all crashes and not just limited to JF-17.

 

[Talon]

What's to be gained from this?

Less ranting of Indians and Youthiyas

 

[Bratva]

Less ranting of Indians and Youthiyas

I wonder why USAF publicly discloses F-35, F-22, B-2 crashes.

 

[JamD]

The policy is with all crashes and not just limited to JF-17.

No ISPR press release but there is always a news piece which has the PAF confirming the crash with a statement like
"QUETTA: A pilot was killed when his Pakistan Air Force plane crashed Wednesday during a training mission in Balochistan province, an air force spokesman said
“It was a Chinese-made F-7PG training aircraft,” Air Commodore Anis Mirza told AFP.
The plane crashed in Pishin district, 65 kilometres north of the provincial capital Quetta, during a “routine” training mission, he said, adding that the pilot “embraced martyrdom”.
The cause of the crash was not immediately known, he said. An investigation is under way."

Pilot killed in PAF plane crash

A pilot was killed when his Pakistan Air Force plane crashed Wednesday during a training mission in Balochistan province, an air force spokesman said.

www.dawn.com

The JF-17 lost over the sea - total silence. This one - total silence and news confirmed by Martin Baker. Clearly there is a certain sensitivity to a JF-17 crashing.

 

[Cryptonian]

No ISPR press release but there is always a news piece which has the PAF confirming the crash with a statement like
"QUETTA: A pilot was killed when his Pakistan Air Force plane crashed Wednesday during a training mission in Balochistan province, an air force spokesman said
“It was a Chinese-made F-7PG training aircraft,” Air Commodore Anis Mirza told AFP.
The plane crashed in Pishin district, 65 kilometres north of the provincial capital Quetta, during a “routine” training mission, he said, adding that the pilot “embraced martyrdom”.
The cause of the crash was not immediately known, he said. An investigation is under way."

Pilot killed in PAF plane crash

A pilot was killed when his Pakistan Air Force plane crashed Wednesday during a training mission in Balochistan province, an air force spokesman said.

www.dawn.com

The JF-17 lost over the sea - total silence. This one - total silence and news confirmed by Martin Baker. Clearly there is a certain sensitivity to a JF-17 crashing.

Indeed, Recent Mirage 3 crash was also freely reported by Dawn without repercussions. But this one...

 

[ThirdFaculty]

No ISPR press release but there is always a news piece which has the PAF confirming the crash with a statement like
"QUETTA: A pilot was killed when his Pakistan Air Force plane crashed Wednesday during a training mission in Balochistan province, an air force spokesman said
“It was a Chinese-made F-7PG training aircraft,” Air Commodore Anis Mirza told AFP.
The plane crashed in Pishin district, 65 kilometres north of the provincial capital Quetta, during a “routine” training mission, he said, adding that the pilot “embraced martyrdom”.
The cause of the crash was not immediately known, he said. An investigation is under way."

Pilot killed in PAF plane crash

A pilot was killed when his Pakistan Air Force plane crashed Wednesday during a training mission in Balochistan province, an air force spokesman said.

www.dawn.com

The JF-17 lost over the sea - total silence. This one - total silence and news confirmed by Martin Baker. Clearly there is a certain sensitivity to a JF-17 crashing.

There’s a reason why The FC-1 is not selling like it was supposed to. The reports of airframe problems seem to be true.
I feel like PAF wanted to pump them out and didn’t care so much of the quality of the product as long as it was an upgrade from the current inventory

 

[Raider 21]

I wonder why USAF publicly discloses F-35, F-22, B-2 crashes.

Their air force owes their taxpayers with answers when incidents like that occur.

 

[JamD]

There’s a reason why The FC-1 is not selling like it was supposed to. The reports of airframe problems seem to be true.
I feel like PAF wanted to pump them out and didn’t care so much of the quality of the product as long as it was an upgrade from the current inventory

I don't think JF-17 has airframe problems. I don't think this is an unusual number of incidents. It is just weird that PAF tries to hide these like its afraid it'll affect its sales.

There are several much bigger reasons for it not capturing the international market: competition, production, tech, weapons, marketing, geopolitics, lots of stuff.

 

[Oscar]

I don't think JF-17 has airframe problems. I don't think this is an unusual number of incidents. It is just weird that PAF tries to hide these like its afraid it'll affect its sales.

There are several much bigger reasons for it not capturing the international market: competition, production, tech, weapons, marketing, geopolitics, lots of stuff.

That’s because people who do not understand marketing , value proposition and so on are giving directions.

The F-16 has a crash record all the way to having a movie made on just that subject…
The gripen has its recorded on video

Yet, the reason they sold goes well beyond crash perception and has to do with relationships, targeted marketing efforts and using every aspect of the relationship for the prospect both military and civilian to close the deal.

Anyway… whats the point

 

[Nilgiri]

That’s because people who do not understand marketing , value proposition and so on are giving directions.

Don't understand the streisand effect either heh. More you cover up, the more you generate interest/attention to it....regd systems that have sufficient information flow to begin with.

Now the matter is made worse in end, an element of "what do you have to hide?" is added automatically to the product.....compared to one that you treat as same as everything else out there.

 

[Oscar]

Don't understand the streisand effect either heh. More you cover up, the more you generate interest/attention to it....regd systems that have sufficient information flow to begin with.

Now the matter is made worse in end, an element of "what do you have to hide?" is added automatically to the product.....compared to one that you treat as same as everything else out there.

Yep - you don’t cover up crashes - but pivot the convo. They should have milked the heck out of swift retort and previous JF-17 combat operations - show them live in combat.

They should not have spent 15 years at airshows talking to cost effectiveness when speaking to Arab states with full pockets - instead talk to them about having maximum capability with leverage to use if they are denied hardware.

This should have been pitched to Serbia and pushed all into South America - instead of letting the Chinese manage that relationship which put the US worried.

Unfortunately, both due to a mix of internal competition from the Chinese and the lack of actual SME in marketing the time for the JF-17 is done.

The Tejas will stand land 1 sale or two even after a crash because I know the brightest of the ICS will be in the embassy pushing it and dining connections unlike the barely qualified paperweights Pakistani embassies have as staff.

 

[DDG-80]

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

That’s because people who do not understand marketing , value proposition and so on are giving directions.

The F-16 has a crash record all the way to having a movie made on just that subject…
The gripen has its recorded on video

Yet, the reason they sold goes well beyond crash perception and has to do with relationships, targeted marketing efforts and using every aspect of the relationship for the prospect both military and civilian to close the deal.

Anyway… whats the point

So incompetency and wrong people in wrong places strike again... the same story always with Pakistan

 

[Reichmarshal]

The higher the sortie rate of a particular type of ac.....the higher the chances of accidents.

The imp thing is the pilot is fine ......the ac can be replaced